gehringer_2 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Just now, romad1 said: I still have the feeling we get a March 31, 1968 LBJ speech tonight. It's a whole different election logistics landscape. Biden will need a better answer than LBJ had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: It's a whole different election logistics landscape. Biden will need a better answer than LBJ had. Kamela will have a hard time getting a VP through the 25th Amendment nomination process because its an election year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: What is missing in all the chattering class talk about replacing Biden is that the usual talk about 'brokered' conventions comes in the context of a primary campaign where the possible candidates were already contesting in the primaries and so had done the ground work to be eligible for the general should they get the nod at a convention outcome. Not the case here, you don't have any ballot qualified candidates. That's why so little of this talk is from sources that Logan Roy would consider 'serious people', because people who are serious have to think through issues like this and propose answers before running their mouths. I'm more Biden-skeptical than you at this point, but I do 100% agree here. There is really only one alternative to Biden at this juncture that allows them to avoid a ton of landmines, from party disunity to campaign finance issues to legal issues, etc., and that's Kamala Harris. It's endlessly frustrating that you have so many pundits (and even politicians) who don't recognize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'm more Biden-skeptical than you at this point, but I do 100% agree here. There is really only one alternative to Biden at this juncture that allows them to avoid a ton of landmines, from party disunity to campaign finance issues to legal issues, etc., and that's Kamala Harris. It's endlessly frustrating that you have so many pundits (and even politicians) who don't recognize that. How could it be anyone else? She's the elected official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 4 minutes ago, romad1 said: How could it be anyone else? She's the elected official. I just see way too many commentators mention "brokered conventions" and "mini primaries" and all that other crap, even two weeks on, and it does such a disservice to consumers. Even the politicians like Sen. Peter Welch, in his statement, mentions Harris and (paraphrasing) "other talented Dem politiicans. Like, FFS guys.... these are supposed to be serious people who *know* better and yet they aren't treating this situation seriously at all. Edited July 11 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: It's unbelievable that we have arrived at a point where you see a quote from a presidential candidate and if you didn't know the names your first assumption would have to be that it was something George Wallace said in 1968. This is so totally sick racism that any decent person should find it revolting. I know it doesn't help anything to call out Trump supporters who lap this up as being scum, sure - they love their kids too, but they sure have developed one helluva case of amnesia regarding basic right and wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 It’s wild that the Squad and Bernie Sanders are behind Biden and the white male centrists are abandoning ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 29 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'm more Biden-skeptical than you at this point, So I am now old enough to seen enough dementia up close that I think I have some level of perspective and here are some things I would say: -there only rule with dementia is that there are no rules. - the patient may understand exactly what is happening and be able to compensate for a long time, or the patient be the last to know and in fact sometimes never comes to awareness of their condition. - I believe Jill Biden is a strong, intelligent woman and I do not believe she would let her husband attempt to serve if he were failing. That said, for all we know she may already be engineering his exit as per Romads supposition, or the two of them may be plotting how to put this behind them - we don't know yet, but certainly will soon enough. - I would also say that your brain may slow down and your down days get tougher, your reaction to drugs and minor illness get more extreme, all without there being any impairment of judgement or dementia involved. Edited July 11 by gehringer_2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: So I am now old enough to seen enough dementia up close that I think I have some level of perspective and here are some things I would say: -there only rule with dementia is that there are no rules. - the patient may understand exactly what is happening and be able to compensate for a long time, or the patient be the last to know and in fact sometimes never comes to awareness of their condition. - I believe Jill Biden is a strong, intelligent woman and I do not believe she would let her husband attempt to serve if he were failing. That said, for all we know she may already be engineering his exit as per Romads supposition, or the two of them may be plotting how to put this behind them - we don't know yet, but certainly will soon enough. - I would also say that your brain may slow down and your down days get tougher, your reaction to drugs and minor illness get more extreme, all without there being any impairment of judgement or dementia involved. The interesting dynamic is how this would change the dynamic because Trump's dad died of Alzheimers. I bet he was a nightmare patient given how hard it is to deal with even sweet, kind people who have this condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) My theory is that the Democratic power brokers made the decision many months ago to run Biden as the candidate but with a plan of having him step down for Kamala shortly after inauguration. The issues at the debate freaked them out. They got rattled and started to wonder if they were better to try and make the move now rather than risk more public issues occurring later in the election cycle when it would be too late to do anything. He can overcome an isolated incident from a debate in June but it’s game over if similar things keep happening especially in the crucial final 2 months. Neither are very good options but they are in a **** situation with high stakes. Now, we are at a time to make the call and stick with it. This needs to be put to rest one way or another tonight. The party division can not continue to linger on as it only helps Trump. Edited July 11 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 11 minutes ago, Hongbit said: My theory is that the Democratic power brokers made the decision many months ago to run Biden as the candidate but with a plan of having him step down for Kamala shortly after inauguration. The issues at the debate freaked them out. They got rattled and started to wonder if they were better to try and make the move now rather than risk more public issues occurring later in the election cycle when it would be too late to do anything. He can overcome an isolated incident from a debate in June but it’s game over if similar things keep happening especially in the crucial final 2 months. Neither are very good options but they are in a **** situation with high stakes. Now, we are at a time to make the call and stick with it. This needs to be put to rest one way or another tonight. The party division can not continue to linger on as it only helps Trump. The focus groups were leading indicators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 If Dems pull off this coup, I’ll still vote for the Dem but I’m not forgetting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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mtutiger Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: So I am now old enough to seen enough dementia up close that I think I have some level of perspective and here are some things I would say: -there only rule with dementia is that there are no rules. - the patient may understand exactly what is happening and be able to compensate for a long time, or the patient be the last to know and in fact sometimes never comes to awareness of their condition. - I believe Jill Biden is a strong, intelligent woman and I do not believe she would let her husband attempt to serve if he were failing. That said, for all we know she may already be engineering his exit as per Romads supposition, or the two of them may be plotting how to put this behind them - we don't know yet, but certainly will soon enough. - I would also say that your brain may slow down and your down days get tougher, your reaction to drugs and minor illness get more extreme, all without there being any impairment of judgement or dementia involved. I don't think he has dementia, and I really dislike how mainstream speculation about various ailments has become during this process fwiw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 What if he does? 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I don't think he has dementia, and I really dislike how mainstream speculation about various ailments has become during this process fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, romad1 said: What if he does? What if he doesn't? I think the innuendo about dementia, without any basis of proof or fact, has only done a disservice to those who are arguing that he should step aside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 My father has early stage dementia. My uncle had it. Biden doesn’t. After reading the symptoms of stuttering, you can see it with Biden. The long eye blinks, the kind of rambling to say a word, and pauses. I never seen the kind of confusion and slow response my dad gets. My dad couldn’t read off a teleprompter or follow basic instructions and he is just a mild case in the early stages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: My father has early stage dementia. My uncle had it. Biden doesn’t. After reading the symptoms of stuttering, you can see it with Biden. The long eye blinks, the kind of rambling to say a word, and pauses. I never seen the kind of confusion and slow response my dad gets. My dad couldn’t read off a teleprompter or follow basic instructions and he is just a mild case in the early stages. What's really getting lost in this conversation is that a person can get older and slow down without having dementia. I've been told within my own family from a family member (who doesn't have dementia) who has made the transition from 79 to 83 and how much of a difference it's made even for his stamina. But instead, the Twitter experts are throwing diagnoses because of course they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 32 minutes ago, mtutiger said: What if he doesn't? I think the innuendo about dementia, without any basis of proof or fact, has only done a disservice to those who are arguing that he should step aside I'm holding to he's 50/50 to leave the race tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 37 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: They'll hate Kamela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, romad1 said: They'll hate Kamela Blacks don’t hate Harris. They love her. What they hate are these white elites who are trying to disenfranchise them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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