2024 Presidential Election thread

[Edman85]

35 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

This, if you claim to be a Christain this is what it means. Anything else is false teaching. 

[Motown Bombers]

38 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

But he would have Sasha Obama as his VP.

If Buttigieg wants to be president, he should run for governor of Michigan in 2026. Prove he can win the black vote in Detroit and then maybe he will have a chance. 

[Hongbit]

57 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think Buttigieg is a future Presidential candidate. Hopefully when he's still in his 40s or 50s and not when he's in his 80s.

 

51 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

How about RIGHT NOW!!!

I mean...

AFTER the DNC, when Biden steps down and hands the reins over to Kamala Harris as Presidential candidate and with Buttigieg as the VP of the ticket. Then... he'll get his chance at the top in 8 years... where he can serve the following 8 years.

I have it all planned out.

He’d make a great president but he likes the *****.  

That’s going to be an issue for a while longer. We will get there as a country someday but the time is not now.  

[MichiganCardinal]

20 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

4. They mostly still HATE Trump. They don’t want to vote for him (though some will). But they don’t feel like it’s responsible to vote for Biden in his diminished state. They are despondent over these choices. Many talking about leaving the top of the ticket blank.

"I hate Candidate X, but it's irresponsible to vote for Candidate Y, because if he dies we might get Candidate Z! So Candidate Y should step aside so I can vote for Candidate Z instead."

"Undecided voters are the biggest idiots on the planet." - Brian Griffin

[Tigeraholic1]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Definitely not my guy. I hope to know the other guy/gal we are suppose to vote for soon.

[Tigeraholic1]

7 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Also the Bill of Rights in the Bible? Thats a first for me. He probably added/changed verbage to claim how your president is next to God or some hog wash.

[Hongbit]

27 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Some good points....thread..

 

She’s a mercenary for hire.  CEO of a bipartisan communications firm that “builds high-profile and high-impact persuasion campaigns and projects”.   If you pay her enough money,  the data will say whatever you want. 

 

[Motown Bombers]

Voters are concerned about Biden's diminished state despite him currently doing the job well. They'll instead vote for the guy with a literal worm in his brain who eats dogs or the guy who can't stay awake, slurs his words, and has a fetish for Hannibal Lecter. 

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

 

He’d make a great president but he likes the *****.  

That’s going to be an issue for a while longer. We will get there as a country someday but the time is not now.  

I can't figure out what's censored, but I can read between the lines lol

I think a lot of people would have said similar things about Obama in 2004 regarding race. That race would be an issue a while longer (obviously very true) but that the time isn't now (obviously wasn't true).

Becoming President as a Democrat is about turnout as much as anything else. A young, incredibly intelligent Midwest Mayor would be a breath of fresh air that hasn't been seen in a presidential race in a long time.

And since Obergefell, and really since the Clinton administration, public opinion of gay marriage and homosexuality have flipped on its head. In 1996, polls were 68% opposed to same-sex marriage and 27% in favor. In 2022, it was 71% in favor and 28% against. I don't think any Democrat would pick up that 28%, and I generally don't think people care all that much anymore. The cat is certainly out of the bag on the Evangelical vote that standards for moral turpitude was just a ruse and they've moved on to bullying trans kids now anyway.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, MichiganCardinal said:

I can't figure out what's censored, but I can read between the lines lol

I think a lot of people would have said similar things about Obama in 2004 regarding race. That race would be an issue a while longer (obviously very true) but that the time isn't now (obviously wasn't true).

Becoming President as a Democrat is about turnout as much as anything else. A young, incredibly intelligent Midwest Mayor would be a breath of fresh air that hasn't been seen in a presidential race in a long time.

And since Obergefell, and really since the Clinton administration, public opinion of gay marriage and homosexuality have flipped on its head. In 1996, polls were 68% opposed to same-sex marriage and 27% in favor. In 2022, it was 71% in favor and 28% against. I don't think any Democrat would pick up that 28%, and I generally don't think people care all that much anymore. The cat is certainly out of the bag on the Evangelical vote that standards for moral turpitude was just a ruse and they've moved on to bullying trans kids now anyway.

A Democrat needs to turn out black vote. It's the base of the party. Buttigieg struggled mightily with black voters. He needs to prove he can turn out black voters or nothing else matters. 

[Motown Bombers]

A poll has Biden down 6 in Florida. Abortion is going to be on the ballot. Social security and Medicare will be as well. I also wonder how this ageism plays in Florida? I think Florida will be closer than people think. I'm not ready to say Biden will win it but I think people will be surprised. That is of course if Dems get out of their own way. 

[MichiganCardinal]

3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

A Democrat needs to turn out black vote. It's the base of the party. Buttigieg struggled mightily with black voters. He needs to prove he can turn out black voters or nothing else matters. 

I totally agree. There is a reason he performed atrociously in South Carolina and dropped out shortly thereafter. He's not ready right now. Especially not to be in a position to jettison Kamala.

IF Biden is replaced, and IF he wants the job (he might not based on his comments about Vance above), he'd be a good VP pick to pair with Kamala though.

[casimir]

26 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Huh.  13 years of Catholic school.  I never knew the bill or rights was in the bible.  Learn something new false every day, I guess.

[Hongbit]

4 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I can't figure out what's censored, but I can read between the lines lol

I think a lot of people would have said similar things about Obama in 2004 regarding race. That race would be an issue a while longer (obviously very true) but that the time isn't now (obviously wasn't true).

Becoming President as a Democrat is about turnout as much as anything else. A young, incredibly intelligent Midwest Mayor would be a breath of fresh air that hasn't been seen in a presidential race in a long time.

And since Obergefell, and really since the Clinton administration, public opinion of gay marriage and homosexuality have flipped on its head. In 1996, polls were 68% opposed to same-sex marriage and 27% in favor. In 2022, it was 71% in favor and 28% against. I don't think any Democrat would pick up that 28%, and I generally don't think people care all that much anymore. The cat is certainly out of the bag on the Evangelical vote that standards for moral turpitude was just a ruse and they've moved on to bullying trans kids now anyway.

I used the non-profane word for the male genitalia and it was rejected.    I think sexual orientation is a very different from race or religion.   It will be overcome but not yet.   Smart, rational people without bias or prejudice are a minority in this county.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

For reference, Appalachia defined from the Appalachian Regional Commission, with approximate location of Middletown circled in red

LOL, that map tracks the mountains accurately but not so much the economic data. I wouldn't put Western PA or any large part of Ohio as meeting what is commonly thought of as economic Appalacia. This map is more the point.

Edited July 20 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL, that map tracks the mountains accurately but not so much the economic data. I wouldn't put Western PA or any large part of Ohio as meeting what is commonly thought of as economic Appalacia. This map is more the point.

Appalachia is defined by what your book publisher and movie producer tells you will sell more units.  

[CMRivdogs]

16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL, that map tracks the mountains accurately but not so much the economic data. I wouldn't put Western PA or any large part of Ohio as meeting what is commonly thought of as economic Appalacia. This map is more the point.

I read a bit of what Vance was referring to was those who immigrated from what was considered Appalachian regions to areas outside the region for work. Much like the migration to Detroit when Henry Ford started mass manufacturing the automobile. In Western Pa, it was the steel mills up until the mid 60s or so ( whenever US Steel started moving employees to Gary, Ind.). They still brought their Appalachian beliefs with them. 

It's more about attitude than location.

 

Edited July 20 by CMRivdogs

[Tigermojo]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

After I posted this, I started thinking about it a little more, and it may have taken an embarrassingly long time to arrive at this, but I think I finally figured out why the evangelicals and other staunch Christians gravitate to Trump: their core identities revolve around being martyrs who are constantly persecuted.

Christianity itself has a very basic persecution origin story: God Himself sent his Son to Earth to spread His message of peace and love, and the apostates, aided by the Jews, God’s once-chosen people, persecuted Him literally to Death.

The early history of Christianity is littered with persecution stories: how the Romans fed them to the lions; how the Jews and Persians drove the Christians out of Jerusalem in the 7th Century; how the Muslims tried to wipe out the Christians in the Crusade. This history of persecution is crucial to how Christians understand themselves and their place in the world. (Of course, their history doesn’t include how the Christians set up the Inquisitions to murder millions of unbelievers, but that’s neither here nor there for this post.)

Even today, Christians love to regale anyone who might listen with tales of how their fellow believers are still being persecuted or even genocided today, in places like communist countries or Africa or Asia or any number of other places where Christians do not predominate. Even in this country, Christians constantly rail against certain parts of the culture, such as the media or Hollywood or academia, that do not elevate them and their beliefs to the privileged status they feel they deserve as being persecution on a cultural level. To maintain the fiction that the entire world is constantly trying to persecute them out of existence is vital to their self-identification. 

Trump, of course, has his own persecution story: he grew up ostracized by his peers, shunned by the polite society he craved attention and approval from, and worst of all, was given the cold shoulder by the father he adored. He has spent his entire adult life raging against “elites”, and fighting against what he perceives as the persecution of him, and he just. Won’t. Shut. The ****. Up. About it. 

And the ironic thing about all this, of course, is how both Trump and the Christians have succeeded almost beyond belief: Trump has been widely-considered one of the greater business tycoons of the 20th and 21st centuries and spent that entire period at least flirting with billionairehood; and the Christians have become a supermajority in the most powerful country in this history of the world, with large swaths of their believers controlling the government and constantly angling to use the machinations of what is supposed to be a secular government to legally privilege themselves and codify their beliefs into law.

So how can two entities with such a core belief in their own persecution mythology not gravitate toward one another?

Narcissist con man recognizes the most successful scam of all time when he sees it.

[1984Echoes]

45 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

A Democrat needs to turn out black vote. It's the base of the party. Buttigieg struggled mightily with black voters. He needs to prove he can turn out black voters or nothing else matters. 

As VP to Kamala Harris that wouldn't be an issue.

As future Presidential candidate, that simply means balancing out the ticket (getting broader appeal with a VP who pulls different demographics) so all that means is finding the right VP to make a powerhouse ticket.

I don't see a problem.

But you do?

[romad1]

Very interesting note today from yesterday's Bulwark pod with SE Cupp talking to Tim Miller.   She says "I know from a well-placed source" that Biden is going to step aside.   Now, that's not exactly dispositive.  But, the effect of that on the chattering class is now the thing that matters.  This needs to be resolved by the end of July at the latest.  And by resolved it needs to be him passing the baton to Kamela.  She's the elected official who got all those votes to be VP back in 2020.  

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

As VP to Kamala Harris that wouldn't be an issue.

As future Presidential candidate, that simply means balancing out the ticket (getting broader appeal with a VP who pulls different demographics) so all that means is finding the right VP to make a powerhouse ticket.

I don't see a problem.

But you do?

I have a problem with the democrat "leaders" who are trying to push Biden out of the race. They're attempting to take away millions of voters votes who voted for Joe in the primary. And they're handing this election to...Donald Trump. Are they corrupt? Or just stupid?

[1984Echoes]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I have a problem with the democrat "leaders" who are trying to push Biden out of the race. They're attempting to take away millions of voters votes who voted for Joe in the primary. And they're handing this election to...Donald Trump. Are they corrupt? Or just stupid?

"I've been driving cars for 75 YEARS! You can't TELL ME that I am no longer fit to drive just because I am LEGALLY BLIND!!!"

[Sports_Freak]

48 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

"I've been driving cars for 75 YEARS! You can't TELL ME that I am no longer fit to drive just because I am LEGALLY BLIND!!!"

These so called "leaders" had a primary to endorse a different candidate. One bad debate and they jump ship? With the possibility of Trump winning the election? It's totally backwards, people should be telling Trump to drop out. And people should be supporting Joe Biden. I'm on team Joe but if the "leaders" are successful, I'll still vote for the democrat nominee.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

These so called "leaders" had a primary to endorse a different candidate. One bad debate and they jump ship? With the possibility of Trump winning the election? It's totally backwards, people should be telling Trump to drop out. And people should be supporting Joe Biden. I'm on team Joe but if the "leaders" are successful, I'll still vote for the democrat nominee.

The thing I come back to is that Biden holds all the cards because he has the pledged delegates and there is pretty much nothing anyone can do stop him from taking the nomination if he decides to. Thus, Biden can basically name his price for agreeing to move. So the real question is what can the malcontents offer Biden as their end of the deal? To me the media portrays the power dynamic exactly backwards. It's Biden who is in control of what happens, not the party insiders or the donors or the media. I believe if he were to agree to go he will exact the price of his choosing and something tells me his opponents won't like it.

[Sports_Freak]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The thing I come back to is that Biden holds all the cards because he has the pledged delegates and there is pretty much nothing anyone can do stop him from taking the nomination if he decides to. Thus, Biden can basically name his price for agreeing to move. So the real question is what can the malcontents offer Biden as their end of the deal? To me the media portrays the power dynamic exactly backwards. It's Biden who is in control of what happens, not the party insiders or the donors or the media. I believe if he were to agree to go he will exact the price of his choosing and something tells me his opponents won't like it.

I think is he were to leave, it would be with the understanding that Harris would be the nominee. Can she beat Trump? I say yes, but don't underestimate MAGA.