Sports_Freak Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Electoral votes are the only votes that count when it comes to deciding the president. Individual votes do not count. If they did, Hillary would have won in 2000, because she got more individual votes than Trump. You and I are not voting for president. We are voting for a candidate's slate of electors from our state. If the Republican wins, their slate of electors will cast the actual vote for president. If the Democrat wins, then their slate of electors will cast that vote. Either way, in the end, our individual votes get thrown out and do not count toward the actual electing of the president, and only the slate of electors' votes will count, and 100% of all of a state's electoral votes will go to either one candidate or the other. You meant 2016. And the elector votes are exactly what MAGA conspired to cheat on in 2020. They sent illegitimate electors paperwork to Pence, hoping to steal the election. The projection of Trump, when he claims the democrats won a "stollen" election, he was admitting he was trying to steal the 2020 election. The guy really is a simpleton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 10 minutes ago, pfife said: I got all of that and agree with it but it doesn't address the statement I made which is that my vote is really valuable. You seem to disgree with that statement. A lot of people are spending a lot of money pursuing it I get what you are saying. The few million votes from those select states are more valuable than the other 130 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Tlaib apparently isn’t endorsing Harris. Shocking I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 10 minutes ago, pfife said: I got all of that and agree with it but it doesn't address the statement I made which is that my vote is really valuable. You seem to disgree with that statement. A lot of people are spending a lot of money pursuing it I didn't say your vote is entirely unimportant. As far as it goes to help select the 100% of electors in your particular state who will cast the vote for your candidate, it is very important. But once that slate is chosen, your individual vote does get thrown out and no longer counts in the choosing of the president. And if your candidate happens to lose your state, then your vote is completely wasted because it won't matter for your candidate in any way. In my case, my vote is virtually wasted, because in this political era, the Democrats have Illinois completely sewn up. If Illinois were to get to the point where my vote might be as important for choosing our slate of electors as your vote in Michigan is, then it will be practically wasted anyway, because that would mean the Republican is swamping the Democrat nationwide. So please, go vote, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: Tlaib apparently isn’t endorsing Harris. Shocking I know. "Kamala the Killer"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: "Kamala the Killer"? For some reason i want to listen to Neil Young now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: I didn't say your vote is entirely unimportant. As far as it goes to help select the 100% of electors in your particular state who will cast the vote for your candidate, it is very important. But once that slate is chosen, your individual vote does get thrown out and no longer counts in the choosing of the president. And if your candidate happens to lose your state, then your vote is completely wasted because it won't matter for your candidate in any way. In my case, my vote is virtually wasted, because in this political era, the Democrats have Illinois completely sewn up. If Illinois were to get to the point where my vote might be as important for choosing our slate of electors as your vote in Michigan is, then it will be practically wasted anyway, because that would mean the Republican is swamping the Democrat nationwide. So please, go vote, and good luck. I think your vote is valuable in locking up Illinois which is valuable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 42 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am voting for him because he loves Jesus and America and has a great family. Question: Which one of those are true? Answer: None of the Above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Typical Twitter misinformation. The hand wringing is wrong. After reading about it, if Joe Biden resigns and Harris becomes POTUS, she nominates somebody as VP. Mike Johnson doesn't automatically become VP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Tlaib apparently isn’t endorsing Harris. Shocking I know. Endorsing Yahya Sinwar instead is not a good look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Typical Twitter misinformation. The hand wringing is wrong. After reading about it, if Joe Biden resigns and Harris becomes POTUS, she nominates somebody as VP. Mike Johnson doesn't automatically become VP. Yep this happened on West Wing it's how lumberg became VP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Typical Twitter misinformation. The hand wringing is wrong. After reading about it, if Joe Biden resigns and Harris becomes POTUS, she nominates somebody as VP. Mike Johnson doesn't automatically become VP. But Johnson is next in line until that VP is confirmed on congress. Good luck getting that done in this congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 We already saw that Unified Reichers will try to assasinate candidates so it's very risky for Joe to bounce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 19 minutes ago, pfife said: I think your vote is valuable in locking up Illinois which is valuable I agree votes are valuable in the aggregate, but my individual vote is practically worthless, because the Democrat is guaranteed to win by a mile. Not true in Michigan, which is why your vote is extremely valuable while it still hasn't been thrown out. I will proactively reject any counterargument that starts out with "what if everyone saw it the way you do and decided not to vote", because they don't see it that way, and they won't not vote for that reason. There is exactly zero zeitgeist going in that direction. Edited July 23 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm sure the resource constraints that Team Trump were forcing were a huge reason. Its not a good excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: I agree votes are valuable in the aggregate, but my individual vote is practically worthless, because the Democrat is guaranteed to win by a mile. Not true in Michigan, which is why your vote is extremely valuable while it still hasn't been thrown out. I will proactively reject any counterargument that starts out with "what if everyone saw it the way you do and decided not to vote", because they don't see it that way, and they won't not vote for that reason. There is exactly zero zeitgeist going in that direction. yeah I'm not on that argument either, I think we actually agree more than we disagree I obvs see your perspective re: Illinois, but I do think the lack of the individual vote value there is b/c of the sum value of the individual votes there which I know is circular but is also true I think the most plausible way to rid of the electoral college was the movement I was seeing in the wake of 2016 where folks were arguing that if all of the states just went to proportional selection of electors it would render the electoral college useless but obvs the unified reich isn't going to go with that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Just like anything in gov't plenty of blame to go around but little accountability this is the modern disease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Back protecting Doritos and Pepsi I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 22 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Typical Twitter misinformation. The hand wringing is wrong. After reading about it, if Joe Biden resigns and Harris becomes POTUS, she nominates somebody as VP. Mike Johnson doesn't automatically become VP. The rub here is a majority both houses of Congress has to approve the selection. We know what would happen in today's Congress. God save the King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Shorting venues probably required Trump do outdoor events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Most don't want help so we leave them a sandwich and water. I am not young, so I can tell you that even before the big de-institutionalization movement and the guys started coming back from 'Nam, we had drunks and addicts begging on the streets in Detroit. I think one difference is that there were places we called SROs (single room occupancy) - mostly old run down apt houses, that people could afford to stay in on their SSI (which used to be more generally available). But economic changes have squeezed out all kinds of cheap housing, de-institutionalization has added to the numbers, welfare rules are stricter, more drugs are available on the street, and returning warrior issues are worse than in the past. So we took a problem we didn't know how to solve when it was small and made it worse from multiple directions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 this stigmata Trump is gonna be interesting. He claims to have "taken a bullet for democracy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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