pfife Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Counter point: I don’t think as many Americans as you guys think are in favor of term limits for the SC. Counterpoint: I don't think as many Americans are in favor of bribing SCOTUS justices like you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I see your weird and raise you weirder. I see your weird and raise you weirder. You gonna get in that warm water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: It's not uncommon though. In American the contradiction between the fact that we are just a slightly more stingy than average social welfare democracy collides head on with the oversold cowboy myth of personal self-sufficiency. One psychological defense for this cognitive dissonance in the dependent is to become harshly committed to ending government support for dependencies (but other people's of course) Yeah I could never be a govt cubicle guy for sure. I did work for GM building Silverados fresh out of the service what a joke the UAW is. My first week I am busting my ass mounting wheels and tires. I am car guy and worked at a tire shop in high school so I was busting out 30 or so an hour. The union steward came up to me after three or four days and said hey man you gotta slow down. I was like what? He said you are doubling our quota per hour. I am like that’s good right? He said no you are pissing everybody off because they will be expected to work harder. I said F those guys loudly. I got followed into the bathroom by three pukes trying to intimidate me. I back them into a corner and said try me. I started a business with my buddy a month later and never looked back. F the UAW. I go into plants all the time now and just laugh to myself when I see the same ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: The union steward came up to me after three or four days and said hey man you gotta slow down. I was like what? He said you are doubling our quota per hour. I am like that’s good right? He said no you are pissing everybody off Yeah - I get the complaint -- but maybe it's more suited to a perfect world. The missing side of your story at the age you were then was that maybe the guys that had been there for years had already integrated into their outlook the fact that no matter what they did or didn't do, management was still going to treat them like exploitable, expendable commodities and screw them into working for free whenever they could. So given that reality - they concede how much they work just as carefully as the company concedes how much they will pay, and that's that. So you were a bull in their carefully arranged china shop...🐄 It is a problem in the US that union/management relations are often so toxic that the behavior on both sides tends to be driven by the worst minority of actors on each side. As an engineer in unionized production facilities you are often the guy that has to negotiate the path through the middle of that battle, because the union guys see you as management, but you need to gain their trust because they generally have the knowledge you need to get to, even though they may or may not even understand the significance of the observations you need them to trust you with (and/or not lie about!) Edited July 30 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 what a weird camp pain sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Yeah - I get the complaint -- but maybe it's more suited to a perfect world. The missing side of your story at the age you were then was that maybe the guys that had been there for years had already integrated into their outlook the fact that no matter what they did or didn't do, management was still going to treat them like exploitable, expendable commodities and screw them into working for free whenever they could. So given that reality - they concede how much they work just as carefully as the company concedes how much they will pay, and that's that. So you were a bull in their carefully arranged china shop...🐄 It is a problem in the US that union/management relations are often so toxic that the behavior on both sides tends to be driven by the worst minority of actors on each side. As an engineer in unionized production facilities you are often the guy that has to negotiate the path through the middle of that battle, because the union guys see you as management, but you need to gain their trust because they generally have the knowledge you need to get to, even though they may or may not even understand the significance of the observations you need them to trust you with. It’s still the same today though. These guys dress head to toe Harley Davison and mostly are MAGAS. You wonder why a truck costs 50k ask the folks who pay a forklift driver 200k a year after OT and holiday pay etc.being around them they love to tell you how much they make. Like a badge of honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Unions will never make a difference again, NAFTA was that nail in the coffin. Automation will replace labor in every way possible, AI will replace human digital tasks in the same way. It's all about the bottom line ($), humans don't matter. Until they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 But Harris has the black vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 14 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: But Harris has the black vote. Effective trolling is sporadic and subtle. You are trying way too hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 They make a lot of movies about guys who run their own businesses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 4 minutes ago, Hongbit said: Effective trolling is sporadic and subtle. You are trying way too hard. I mean he’s putting it out there that Trump will definitely win the African American vote because he has that criminal affinity. Bold and proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 30 minutes ago, Screwball said: Automation will replace labor in every way possible, AI will replace human digital tasks in the same way. IDK - I bet there will always be a set of low rung workers doing something, even if it's only making sure the machines are happy - and they'll still be treated badly by their bosses and try to organize for better conditions. Whether we will have any laws that still allow it is a good question though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 12 minutes ago, romad1 said: They make a lot of movies about guys who run their own businesses Books to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Books to. Two? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 24 minutes ago, romad1 said: Two? I mean there’s hope for your budding writing career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 40 minutes ago, romad1 said: I mean he’s putting it out there that Trump will definitely win the African American vote because he has that criminal affinity. Bold and proud. Bet you didn’t even listen to the innocent man in the video. Or don’t want to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Bet you didn’t even listen to the innocent man in the video. Or don’t want to hear it. Can he have a job in your company? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Speaking of locking up innocent black men, how are the Central Park Five doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Because requiring adherence to real ethics standards and expanding guarantees of rule of law is just the same thing as commandeering the judiciary with pet jurists. Post better than this. MAGA has no use for your puny logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 YES!! Perfect! Take back the "L" word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 13 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Harris becoming the nominee seems to have broke him. He's turned into a MAGA troll since she became the nominee. 13 hours ago, Tigerbomb13 said: Wild how the switch flipped on him immediately when this happened. Honestly, I don't mind seeing a sharp turn toward conservatism, even if it's a knee-jerk reaction to the change of candidates to Kamala Harris. It's true that we do have a strain of groupthink here that in fairness makes it difficult for hard-right conservatives to stand fast against, although the groupthink about the current Trumpublicans is fairly earned. But for me, it has been the relentless, mean-spirited, intellectually-dishonest, barely on-topic bomb-throwing that finally wore me down. It's the same reason I bugged out of the Gaza thread. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 JD is the guy who in middle school you wouldn't want to be left alone with young girls or pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 (edited) 11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Yeah - I get the complaint -- but maybe it's more suited to a perfect world. The missing side of your story at the age you were then was that maybe the guys that had been there for years had already integrated into their outlook the fact that no matter what they did or didn't do, management was still going to treat them like exploitable, expendable commodities and screw them into working for free whenever they could. So given that reality - they concede how much they work just as carefully as the company concedes how much they will pay, and that's that. So you were a bull in their carefully arranged china shop...🐄 It is a problem in the US that union/management relations are often so toxic that the behavior on both sides tends to be driven by the worst minority of actors on each side. As an engineer in unionized production facilities you are often the guy that has to negotiate the path through the middle of that battle, because the union guys see you as management, but you need to gain their trust because they generally have the knowledge you need to get to, even though they may or may not even understand the significance of the observations you need them to trust you with (and/or not lie about!) I will say this for union employees, at least in the industry that I work in (as someone who has practiced in Texas and Illinois, I've seen both sides of this): Unions aren't perfect and the politics that come with them often create a lot of headaches, but in terms of training, union employees tend to be much more skilled, trained and work safer than non-union employees. There's a real tradeoff that exists between the two IMO, boiling it down to "they get paid more to do less work" doesn't really capture what I've seen. Edited July 30 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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