2024 Presidential Election thread

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Isn't that sort of what we are discussing though? By all accounts, 1776 is a Republican.... he has historically voted Republican, he would like to vote Republican, he has stated that, at least in this election, he will not vote for Donald Trump. Definitionally, that counts as a negative to Republican turnout. That's a win, take the W and move on.

I’m talking globally, not personally.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Shaming family and frinds?  That sounds like a bad strategy to me.  Also, trying to scare them with fake math.  Bad strategy!

On a more global level I would say that shame is something this culture has swung too far away from for its own good. We've moved away from many forms of sexual shaming that needed to be discarded but somehow threw out the baby with the bath water on the social acceptance and even lionization of all kinds or retrograde and anti-social and bigoted behaviors along the way that cultural shaming is a primary mode of keeping in check.

Edited October 6, 2024 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Exactly. And while it's been fairly argued that shaming people who don't see that difference is bad strategy for the Harris campaign, it NOT bad strategy for their friends and acquaintances to at least try to set them straight. 

I guess you can try that with people who are telling you they are voting for Trump (not much to lose I guess), but I'm not sure that shame is the best strategy on someone is telling you they plan to write-in a candidate... there's a risk of alienation that could lead to a worse outcome (ie. pushing them back to Trump)

[Tiger337]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

On a more global level I would say that shame is something this culture has swung too far away from for its own good. We've moved away from many forms of sexual shaming that needed to be discarded but somehow threw out the baby with the bath water on the social acceptance and even lionization of all kinds or retrograde and anti-social and bigoted behaviors along the way that cultural shaming is a primary mode of keeping in check.

I don't know.  I see people shaming each other all the time on social media and it doesn't work.  It just makes people more stubborn.      

[mtutiger]

He's a chip off the old block apparently... more money than brains.

[oblong]

So tonight I was hanging out with a cousin who is from macomb.  Near the end of the night political ads came on as we came inside and watched the michigan game.  During the lamenting of the proliferation of commercials it came out that isn’t voting for trump. He’s a lifelong Republican. He said his mom, he is a cousin by marriage so we don’t know her, ran the macomb gop for years.  The issue for him was abortion overall.  He was the same with the MI Governor race.  He wasn’t a fan of Whitmer.  But no way on Tudor.  I don’t know qnd didn’t ask if he’s voting for Harris. I didn’t ask as the conversation was high level and polite. 

[gehringer_2]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know.  I see people shaming each other all the time on social media and it doesn't work.  It just makes people more stubborn.      

that kind of social pressure functions in person - and probably social media is a contributing reason to why it has broken down. It's easy to be a jerk at a keyboard. When no-one at the table will talk to you in person in the real world that's a much different story. Social media is fundamentally permission because there are no consequences in most of it. Plus I suppose it's another thing where ti's better to win the battle before the human is an adult. 

Edited October 6, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

56 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that kind of social pressure functions in person - and probably social media is a contributing reason to why it has broken down. It's easy to be a jerk at a keyboard. When no-one at the table will talk to you in person in the real world that's a much different story. Social media is fundamentally permission because there are no consequences in most of it. Plus I suppose it's another thing where ti's better to win the battle before the human is an adult. 

If you think nobody talking to you at the dinner table is a deterrent, you haven't met my family.  😃

Seriously though, I just don't see how shaming family and friends is ever a good strategy.   

[Hongbit]

15 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Dropped off my absentee ballot in the mailbox this morning.

All the political ads will stop now right?

I still like going to the polling place and doing it in person.  Has zero to do with any trust issues about my ballot.  It’s just something I like to do on Election Day with my daughter that will hopefully rub off on her to understand the importance of voting.  

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I still like going to the polling place and doing it in person.  Has zero to do with any trust issues about my ballot.  It’s just something I like to do on Election Day with my daughter that will hopefully rub off on her to understand the importance of voting.  

I like mailing in my ballot because I hate pople.  

[smr-nj]

I do the mail in voting, but I go to my local drop box.  I don’t trust the USPS, mail delivery.

[oblong]

We have early voting so we will be doing that.  It’s in a location we go to all the time. I’m off on Election Day so I thought of going then but I figure save that spot in line for someone else who may not know about early voting. Make if less congested.  

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, smr-nj said:

I do the mail in voting, but I go to my local drop box.  I don’t trust the USPS, mail delivery.

For mine, I can confirm online that my vote arrived and was counted.

I sent mine in Friday Night. If nothing has changed in a week or so, I'll ask questions. Normally it takes a couple business days at most, but Hurricane Milton could affect things.

Edited October 6, 2024 by Edman85

[Motor City Sonics]

3 hours ago, oblong said:

We have early voting so we will be doing that.  It’s in a location we go to all the time. I’m off on Election Day so I thought of going then but I figure save that spot in line for someone else who may not know about early voting. Make if less congested.  

Yes,  I will be doing the early voting.   You could put Bob Menendez up against Trump and I'd vote for that bastard.    My mind was made up in the 80s when he was just a New York loudmouth. 

We talk about his dangerous rhetoric, his lack of experience, his racism, sexism and every other non-white-ism, but on top of that he's stupid as ****.   I mean that mother****er is stupid.   I used to think he was just ignorant, but now I know he's stupid too. 

To think this ****ing idiot negotiated a single deal in his life is utter nonsense and if you believe that than P.T. Barnum was right. 

Sorry about the swearing, but this bastard brings out the barbarian in me.     

[MichiganCardinal]

6 hours ago, Hongbit said:

I still like going to the polling place and doing it in person.  Has zero to do with any trust issues about my ballot.  It’s just something I like to do on Election Day with my daughter that will hopefully rub off on her to understand the importance of voting.  

I agree. I enjoy it as well and normally I do go in person. I’m in and out of Michigan though right now for work, and I think as of right now I’ll be in DC on Election Day. That should be a trip, maybe they’ll change their mind if they think a state of emergency is going to be declared.

But that’s why I voted absentee this year.

[mtutiger]

This feels overdue.... anyone that has watched him for any length of time can see he isn't what he used to be.

[CMRivdogs]

 

[CMRivdogs]

Benedict Trump is truly Lord of the Flys

 

[MichiganCardinal]

28 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This feels overdue.... anyone that has watched him for any length of time can see he isn't what he used to be.

I agree. And I’m not here to defend the media, but it feels like it’s been much more gradual than Biden’s.

Maybe that’s just because he loves to hear himself talk, so he’s constantly in front of a microphone saying something stupid, while Biden I hear maybe 3-5 times a year.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Yes,  I will be doing the early voting.   You could put Bob Menendez up against Trump and I'd vote for that bastard.    My mind was made up in the 80s when he was just a New York loudmouth. 

We talk about his dangerous rhetoric, his lack of experience, his racism, sexism and every other non-white-ism, but on top of that he's stupid as ****.   I mean that mother****er is stupid.   I used to think he was just ignorant, but now I know he's stupid too. 

To think this ****ing idiot negotiated a single deal in his life is utter nonsense and if you believe that than P.T. Barnum was right. 

Sorry about the swearing, but this bastard brings out the barbarian in me.     

You are correct on every point. We like to assume that billionaires must be smart, but that is not always the case.  I mean it's nice to think that, in our capitalist system, hard working, smart people are the ones that rise to the top, but it's not always the case.  I too used to think he was just shallow and ignorant, but it's more than that.   

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

You are correct on every point. We like to assume that billionaires must be smart, but that is not always the case.  I mean it's nice to think that, in our capitalist system, hard working, smart people are the ones that rise to the top, but it's not always the case.  I too used to think he was just shallow and ignorant, but it's more than that.   

If you start with nothing, it usually takes work and smarts to get ahead. When you start with a small fortune, the nature of the capitalist system makes it very hard to lose it. With the kind of money Trump was gifted you have access to types and methods of investment that are virtually guaranteed to grow a small fortune into a bigger one. Trump's singular brilliance has been having the gall to totally game the US legal system as the stop loss on his mistakes. He's the poster child for why legal reform in the US is desperately needed. We have gone so overboard in the name of insuring access (i.e. US Judges are pathologically indisposed to rejecting meritless cases that they should) that instead we have a system illegitimate cases clog up and legitimate ones can't get timely justice from.

[smr-nj]

31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

If you start with nothing, it usually takes work and smarts to get ahead. When you start with a small fortune, the nature of the capitalist system makes it very hard to lose it. With the kind of money Trump was gifted you have access to types and methods of investment that are virtually guaranteed to grow a small fortune into a bigger one. Trump's singular brilliance has been having the gall to totally game the US legal system as the stop loss on his mistakes. He's the poster child for why legal reform in the US is desperately needed. We have gone so overboard in the name of insuring access (i.e. US Judges are pathologically indisposed to rejecting meritless cases that they should) that instead we have a system illegitimate cases clog up and legitimate ones can't get timely justice from.

You can thank his (& his dad’s) lawyer, Roy Cohn for that.

[gehringer_2]

So it does seem the media is finally going hard at Trump over the FEMA lies, and that seems to have also catalyzed another round of GOP defections. It's hard to be anything but pessimistic anything can move the needle, but still I'll be watching to see if this is something that finally does.

[chasfh]

My wife was having breakfast with her sister yesterday, and the sister mentioned that she’d heard that the federal government is not helping the people of western North Carolina at all, and man, I wish I’d been there to hear that.

[1776]

This is what concerns me about this presidential cycle. This piece is a balanced look at what isn’t being addressed in the campaigns, a mountain of growing debt!

https://www.wral.com/story/harris-proposals-would-increase-the-national-debt-but-trump-s-would-add-even-more-study-finds/21660778/