2024 Presidential Election thread

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Liz will land on her feet if/when the GOP is reconstituted after Trump. She just will have to move out of Wyoming to do it.

I think she lives in Virginia. I think there were questions when she first ran about whether she actually lived in Wyoming. She'll probably continue to be a regular on the cable news shows. 

[1776]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Liz will land on her feet if/when the GOP is reconstituted after Trump. She just will have to move out of Wyoming to do it.

I think Cheney is toast. The GOP needs a clean canvas going forward. She’s got too much baggage now. I’d never support her and I’m sure I wouldn’t be alone. 

[Edman85]

22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, the war in Ukraine would be happening with or without the US. Without the US, Putin would be running roughshod over Europe. 

Oh, I don't disagree at all.

And frankly, any major scaling back of defense right now given the rise of authoritarianism across the globe would be a mistake. Extreme isolationism at this point would increase the chances of WW3 and drag us in.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

This is probably true and the Left that doesn't fail in assessing the scale or category of what is different about Reagan, Bush and Trump might still miss what was so corrupt about Clinton but not Obama.  All of the previous POTUS (POTUSi?) were better about having respect to at least some degree for the norms. 

 

I agree completely here. It was a singular failure for the Dems, and the gift that has just kept on giving for bad politics in the USA, that the Dems couldn't draw the line when Clinton lied under oath. I don't care how venal the sin actually was, how popular he was, and how craven or unjustified Starr was, that was a line that should not have been crossed, and once it was, crow-barred open the door for where we are today.

Edited Sunday at 04:56 PM by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, 1776 said:

I’ll be interested in seeing where Cheney ends up after the election. Opposing Trump’s actions and speaking out were things I could support. She has now morphed into a shill for Harris and the DNC. How does supporting Harris’ agenda move conservatism forward, if in fact she was a true conservative at the outset of her political career? She voted as one. I know she pissed all the MAGA’s off, fine. There are moderate conservatives out here that are looking for leadership going forward that has nothing to do with MAGA. Again, I’d be interested in seeing where, or who she is, a year out. 

I haven’t see Liz Cheney shill any Democratic Party policies. All I have seen her do is draw the line between a normal candidate and a Hitler-loving fascist who, not for nothing, is not anything like a conservative. She appears to me to be a conservative who is will to put up with Democratic policies instead of allowing the country and its Constitution to collapse into the dustbin of history. Maybe you don’t want her to do so, but I sure do.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Without the left demonizing previous Republican Presidents and constantly pushing political correctness, Trump doesn't get normalized so easily.  

War criminals deserve to be demonized and Bush is a war criminal.

[romad1]

 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, LaceyLou said:

And yes, it's the made up culture wars that cause so many problems.... think the myth of the feminazi and/or stories of children having gender changing surgery in their schools. It's not hard to find people online who think the Democrats want to exterminate white, heterosexual males or ban cows. 

As for immigrants... many of us who are now considered 'real' Americans were once part of a group that was marginalized. I'm of Irish and Scandinavian descent, and both of these were definitely considered lower than the more established groups.

I know people here hate Maher so maybe I’m a jerk for watching him. I will stipulate as much.

He had Megyn Kelly on this past Friday, and she was spouting that ****ing nonsense about grade school children being transitioned to another gender after visits to psychologists, and I was screaming at the TV for Maher to ask her for the data, tell us how many, give us numbers instead of merely spewing some hysterical scenario, because I don’t think there are any numbers, probably because it has practically never happened, and all Maher did was agree that in same cases that does happen. I think my flying shoe may have scratched the screen.

[pfife]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:45 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

The left has been aching for political violence. Praying for a spark to explode. Now, the 12th round push to make Trump Hitler. I am sure this old, probably paid actor has no idea what he is talking about.

 

 

Lol

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I know people here hate Maher

LOL - I watched him some when he first hit the scene, but this episode is exactly why I don't anymore. Every time he gets you half persuaded he's trying to be a truth teller, he drops a turd like this, the mask falls and you see he's just another profiteer playing to the niche where he perceives his audience to be.

[LaceyLou]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I know people here hate Maher so maybe I’m a jerk for watching him. I will stipulate as much.

He had Megyn Kelly on this past Friday, and she was spouting that ****ing nonsense about grade school children being transitioned to another gender after visits to psychologists, and I was screaming at the TV for Maher to ask her for the data, tell us how many, give us numbers instead of merely spewing some hysterical scenario, because I don’t think there are any numbers, probably because it has practically never happened, and all Maher did was agree that in same cases that does happen. I think my flying shoe may have scratched the screen.

Wow, just wow. 

I've been known to watch Maher, but yeah, a lot of times I feel cases like this completely negate any good points he makes. I suppose he could be egging her on in order to show how silly she looks, but even if that is true (unlikely, IMO) I'm pretty sure it flies over the heads of anybody who believes her. 

My guess is he's an entertainer, looking for the controversy in order to rile up viewers. 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, pfife said:

Lol

Before a Hitler ends up where he is, he has to start somewhere. It's fair enough if Wartsk doesn't like the Dems devaluing the singularity of Hitler's end game, but the rest of us should remember that it was the reporting of Trump's invocation of "Hitler's Generals"  and an ex-Trump chief of staff calling him a fascist that has brought the Hitler discussion to the fore.

Edited Sunday at 05:48 PM by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

Wow, just wow. 

I've been known to watch Maher, but yeah, a lot of times I feel cases like this completely negate any good points he makes. I suppose he could be egging her on in order to show how silly she looks, but even if that is true (unlikely, IMO) I'm pretty sure it flies over the heads of anybody who believes her. 

My guess is he's an entertainer, looking for the controversy in order to rile up viewers. 

Right, although TBF to some degree, if he starts shouting down guests, he won’t get any more guests. But man, this was just such low-hanging fruit.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Right, although TBF to some degree, if he starts shouting down guests, he won’t get any more guests. But man, this was just such low-hanging fruit.

He didn't have to shout her down though, he simply could have laughed and politely said "OK - give me one example"

[chasfh]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

He didn't have to shout her down though, he simply could have laughed and politely said "OK - give me one example"

No! I don’t want one example. One example constitutes an anecdote, and right-wingers have made a cottage industry out of the use of anecdotes to create general hysteria and seize power. I want numbers. I want data. I want to understand the scope of whatever they want us to believe the problem is. I don’t think they can do it, and they should be trapped by their lack of data all day long and twice of Sundays.

[chasfh]

I’ll keep watching for the time being, because I like hearing the debates on it, but Maher has become this new breed of radicalized centrist, the kind who is cynical about everything; the kind who implies if not actually asserts that neither side is better than the other when thats clearly not the case; and who elevates the spectre of political correctness way, way beyond its scope and level of danger. I’m seeing more of that everywhere, and it’s getting really tiresome.

[Tiger337]

40 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

War criminals deserve to be demonized and Bush is a war criminal.

He was demonized before that.  

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’ll keep watching for the time being, because I like hearing the debates on it, but Maher has become this new breed of radicalized centrist, the kind who is cynical about everything; the kind who implies if not actually asserts that neither side is better than the other when thats clearly not the case; and who elevates the spectre of political correctness way, way beyond its scope and level of danger. I’m seeing more of that everywhere, and it’s getting really tiresome.

Bill James is another one...but I forgive him.  

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think they can do it, and they should be trapped by their lack of data all day long and twice of Sundays.

Of course they can't. But even that would not make any difference. You need both real data *and* a validation system that people accept to vet that data so they believe it. Even when the data is present, it makes no impact because our society has lost any semblance of a validation system for public truth.

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Of course they can't. But even that would not make any difference. You need both real data *and* a validation system that people accept to vet that data so they believe it. Even when the data is present, it makes no impact because our society has lost any semblance of a validation system for public truth.

I don’t think we should just give up on the idea because we’re too smart to believe it can ever happen. We gotta start changing it with a step in the right direction.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

but Maher has become this new breed of radicalized centrist, the kind who is cynical about everything

The public cynic isn't new per se, Mort Sahl, the above mentioned George Carlin - the role has always had a niche. You may be right that Maher's twist is to be more overtly political and take his stance between two specific poles instead of just being critic at large. 

To me the bigger problem with Maher is that it's easy to believe nothing or at least say you believe nothing, but it's also fundamentally fallacious. Everybody believes something, at least everyone who is able to motivate themselves to get out of bed in the morning. The question is do you actually understand your own belief system and it's consequences? And is it driving you into a meaningful life or an empty one?

 

[gehringer_2]

Just now, chasfh said:

I don’t think we should just give up on the idea because we’re too smart to believe it can ever happen. We gotta start changing it with a step in the right direction.

It's going to be hard because what we have thought we understood about information and truth since maybe the Renaissance  has been turned on it's head by the explosion of information of the IT age. Today the challenge isn't to get the truth heard, it's to prevent it being buried in a barrage of false noise. The practices and procedures that worked for the former problem are obsolete to deal with the latter.

[Edman85]

23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’ll keep watching for the time being, because I like hearing the debates on it, but Maher has become this new breed of radicalized centrist, the kind who is cynical about everything; the kind who implies if not actually asserts that neither side is better than the other when thats clearly not the case; and who elevates the spectre of political correctness way, way beyond its scope and level of danger. I’m seeing more of that everywhere, and it’s getting really tiresome.

I feel seen.

My take on the far left is not that it is nearly as bad as the far right these days, but it does fuel the extremists and can lead to a chicken little effect when not properly checked.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I feel seen.

My take on the far left is not that it is nearly as bad as the far right these days, but it does fuel the extremists and can lead to a chicken little effect when not properly checked.

And I think that turns off a lot of moderates.  

[romad1]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Liz Cheney will not be in Harris cabinet. At best she will be some random ambassador. 

There will be GOP people in a Harris cabinet.  I think its the new norm.