gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 06:30 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:30 PM 4 minutes ago, Edman85 said: I feel seen. My take on the far left is not that it is nearly as bad as the far right these days, but it does fuel the extremists and can lead to a chicken little effect when not properly checked. I'd say it's probably because the modern 'extremism' of the right is on economic issues that are complex and poorly understood by the public, while the modern 'extremes' on the left tend to be about lifestyle and cultural issue on which everyone is their own certified expert. Unfortunately, the damage to society is much greater by the former than the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted Sunday at 06:30 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:30 PM 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: And I think that turns off a lot of moderates. Yes. Take for example "defund the police." And the Dems would be rightfully winning the border battles if the extreme voices on the left pushing for wide open borders 3-5 years ago hadn't given soundbites and fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Sunday at 06:40 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:40 PM I've become much less sanguine about religious leaders manipulating, in-particular, low-information family members who report to me that Kamela can't form coherent sentences. I know my sister knows nothing from politics and only hears things from within her own bubble which likely doesn't even include Fox News. I have read Machiavelli and I know you can't openly disparage religion as a political leader with a future but man, the churches in this country have way too much power over their flocks if my sister's peasant mindset is any guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 06:44 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:44 PM (edited) 14 minutes ago, Edman85 said: And the Dems would be rightfully winning the border battles maybe rightfully, but I still don't think they would be. Trump pushes immigration and the border and it works for him in so many places were there isn't even any immigration problem, because he's making immigrants the 'scape goat for the dwindling middle class's anger and there is a big dose of retribution sentiment there - thus all the talk about deportation. IMO - the Dems would never have taken that ground from Trump even if they had never given the 1st 'open-boarder' believer a microphone because they were never going where Trump is willing to. OTOH - yeah 'defund the police' was shot placed directly in the foot. Edited Sunday at 06:46 PM by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted Sunday at 06:46 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:46 PM Harris does not speak as well as Obama or Bill Clinton, but she speaks better than Biden or Trump. Her ability to speak is fine. Her problem is that she answers almost every question with something about Trump. Now, preventing Trump from getting into power again may be the most important issue, but you are not going to get people to vote that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 06:56 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:56 PM 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Harris does not speak as well as Obama or Bill Clinton, but she speaks better than Biden or Trump. Her ability to speak is fine. Her problem is that she answers almost every question with something about Trump. Now, preventing Trump from getting into power again may be the most important issue, but you are not going to get people to vote that way. IDK - I tend to believe the messaging in every modern campaigns has been thoroughly strategized and market tested and none of it is accidental - unless you have a totally undisciplined candidate - like Trump. The Dems may well be wrong, but I would guess they have internal data that is telling them to keep talking about Trump. After all, neither you or I are the target audience here, so how it strikes us isn't where they are aiming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Sunday at 07:14 PM Share Posted Sunday at 07:14 PM 24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Harris does not speak as well as Obama or Bill Clinton, but she speaks better than Biden or Trump. Her ability to speak is fine. Her problem is that she answers almost every question with something about Trump. Now, preventing Trump from getting into power again may be the most important issue, but you are not going to get people to vote that way. I think her big issue when speaking is a lack of authenticity. She sounds too poll tested and scripted at times. It's good to be on message and have message discipline, but speak like a regular person speaks, don't sound like you're a talking point machine. Harris, and any politician, sounds best when they are just allowed to go out there and be themselves and speak freely. You can do that while staying on message. Trump's problem is he'll do that but get wildly off message and ramble off a bunch of nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted Sunday at 07:37 PM Share Posted Sunday at 07:37 PM 41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK - I tend to believe the messaging in every modern campaigns has been thoroughly strategized and market tested and none of it is accidental - unless you have a totally undisciplined candidate - like Trump. The Dems may well be wrong, but I would guess they have internal data that is telling them to keep talking about Trump. After all, neither you or I are the target audience here, so how it strikes us isn't where they are aiming. It wouldn't be the first time they made a mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted Sunday at 07:39 PM Share Posted Sunday at 07:39 PM 17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I think her big issue when speaking is a lack of authenticity. She sounds too poll tested and scripted at times. The more knowledgeable you are of your subject/topic, the more comfortable you are discussing it and are more willing to answer the difficult questions raised. I get the impression when hearing her speak that she is avoiding any real specifics that may lead to the hard questions. I know that’s how most politicians operate anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted Sunday at 07:47 PM Share Posted Sunday at 07:47 PM 2 minutes ago, 1776 said: The more knowledgeable you are of your subject/topic, the more comfortable you are discussing it and are more willing to answer the difficult questions raised. I get the impression when hearing her speak that she is avoiding any real specifics that may lead to the hard questions. I know that’s how most politicians operate anyway. Good point. Trump seems to think he is extremely knowledgeable about every subject and is comfortable throwing around his bull****. Just don't challenge him. He doesn't like that. Harris doesn't give good questions about what she wants to do. Just talking about Trump all the time isn't going to work even though she has characterized him brilliantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted Sunday at 08:03 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:03 PM When I talk about pushing back on the extreme left not being both sidesing... I thought this from the comment section of a very good NYT Article on the Springfield situation was a good example of that. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/us/politics/springfield-ohio-family-trump-haitian-immigrants.html Granted, I know I got a little angry and hostile yesterday, and it's tough to resist that. Which is another reason I want Trump to go away. He evokes the worst of all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Sunday at 08:08 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:08 PM The Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden today is going to put the final nail in his own campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted Sunday at 08:08 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:08 PM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Sunday at 08:18 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:18 PM I'll be honest, the Arthur Blank endorsement was actually quite heartening. Not every billionaire is a ****heel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ronz Posted Sunday at 08:23 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:23 PM 10 minutes ago, romad1 said: The Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden today is going to put the final nail in his own campaign. I think it will be exactly that but it will also be what propels him to victory. I'm interested to see if they display a picture of George Washington like they did in 1939. Remember the main speaker was Fritz Kuhn from Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Sunday at 08:25 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:25 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaceyLou Posted Sunday at 08:27 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:27 PM Love the contagion emergency kit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 08:29 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:29 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Harris doesn't give good questions about what she wants to do. Just talking about Trump all the time isn't going to work even though she has characterized him brilliantly So here is the logic as I read it. There are probably no voters out there this cycle voting on policy detail. The media like to maintain the fiction that there are, but the only policy that has traction this cycle is abortion, and nothing either candidate says about that matters because there is no ambiguity that the Dems are pro choice and Trump presided over the repeal of Roe - so there is no possible movement for that segment of policy voters. On everything else, Dems are going to accept anything Harris throws out on policy because they are Dems and whether Harris is their 1st policy choice or not, Trump looks like the apocalypse so you aren't going to get them any more motivated about Medicare policy than they already are about the risk of Trump. (Dem voters would normally be interested in policy detail in most cycles, but I just don't see it this one.) OTOH. no republican is ever going to vote for Harris based knowing finer details of Democratic policy proposals, they are republicans and aren't going to like Democratic policies in broad strokes or fine details. The only logic for the Dems wrt those voters is to either get them to stay home or vote Harris because Trump is just too toxic, not because of anything Harris says about her policies. So I think the group that Harris wants to reach to at this point are those Repubs, and for them the message is 100% - "Think about how bad Trump is before you pull a level for him." -- while not throwing out the kind of policy detail that a GOP voter might fix on as a show stopper. If I'm Harris, the only reason I talk policy at this point to maintain a progressive posture - to stress a change agenda. For this the details of the change are also only marginally important. Edited Sunday at 09:17 PM by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 08:35 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:35 PM 1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: She sounds too poll tested and scripted at times. yeah - It's a skill - apparently not her best. Could be part of the prosecutorial habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Sunday at 08:37 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:37 PM Looks like a replay of Trump's Greatest Hits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted Sunday at 08:40 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:40 PM If voters were voting on policy, Biden would have won in a landslide and not run out of the White House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 08:49 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:49 PM 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: If voters were voting on policy, Biden would have won in a landslide and not run out of the White House. Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Sunday at 08:53 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:53 PM 12 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Looks like a replay of Trump's Greatest Hits the bigots must be really getting off on the permission Trump's campaign is giving them. Free at Last after being suppressed in public for 60 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ronz Posted Sunday at 09:04 PM Share Posted Sunday at 09:04 PM Yep! Exactly this. They absolutely revel in the ability to call people n****, f***, r****** and whatever other slur they can think of in public without any repercussions. They have been waiting for decades to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Sunday at 09:40 PM Share Posted Sunday at 09:40 PM (edited) He can win, it is obviously very close. But despite that reality, it cannot be overstated just how ****ty of a campaign he is running. Just by every objective measure Edited Sunday at 09:41 PM by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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