2024 Presidential Election thread

[mtutiger]

But yes, it's Kamala Harris that is inviting violence.

GMAFB

[LaceyLou]

They're trying to play on the fears that suburbanites are supposed to have-of inner city residents, Puerto Ricans, etc. in the hopes of scaring more people into voting for them. Sadly, I believe this has often been effective.

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Who is that speaking?    I know it's not Rob Schneider,  but he's trying to be.    

 

 

[Motor City Sonics]

Wow, I guess their strategy in these last 10 days is amp up the racism.  I just saw one of the most racist political ads I have ever seen from John James.     If people treated Blacks the way he treats Mexicans would he even care?  

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The public cynic isn't new per se, Mort Sahl, the above mentioned George Carlin - the role has always had a niche. You may be right that Maher's twist is to be more overtly political and take his stance between two specific poles instead of just being critic at large. 

To me the bigger problem with Maher is that it's easy to believe nothing or at least say you believe nothing, but it's also fundamentally fallacious. Everybody believes something, at least everyone who is able to motivate themselves to get out of bed in the morning. The question is do you actually understand your own belief system and it's consequences? And is it driving you into a meaningful life or an empty one?

 

One objection I have about Maher is that he is an old school liberal until his ox gets gored. Two examples: (1) he railed against California's environmental regulations because they specifically affected his ability to put solar panels on his house; and (2) he rails against political correctness on college campuses in general specifically because he feels it has cost him college bookings for his standup act. He gets butthurt by an inconvenience wrought by a minor aspect of some larger thing, and so he flushes that entire thing down the toilet. It's so baldly obvious for the guy.

All this said, I still enjoy the show for the debates at the table. I wish he still had the third panelist on it, which he dumped during the pandemic.

[mtutiger]

25 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

They're trying to play on the fears that suburbanites are supposed to have-of inner city residents, Puerto Ricans, etc. in the hopes of scaring more people into voting for them. Sadly, I believe this has often been effective.

I won't make a judgment on saying he won't win in spite of this, but I don't think this is effective in this context in an election which, based on Trump's own campaign, relies greatly on backfilling suburban women with Black and Latino men.

I also think the suburbs of all of these cities (Detroit, Philly and Milwaukee in particular) are changing a lot... They are growing, they are more diverse, and the people who live in them don't necessarily respond the dog whistles in quite the same way.

With respect to Detroit, it isn't L. Brooks Patterson's Oakland County anymore... People dont necessarily harbor the same animosities that they used to, and on a cultural level, especially seen during the Tigers and Lions playoffs runs, the "Detroit v Everyone" framing doesn't die off at Eight Mile. There's a level of cohesion today that wasn't the case 20 or 30 years ago

Edited Sunday at 10:14 PM by mtutiger

[LaceyLou]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I won't make a judgment on saying he won't win in spite of this, but I don't think this is effective in this context in an election which, based on Trump's own campaign, relies greatly on backfilling suburban women with Black and Latino men.

I also think the suburbs of all of these cities (Detroit and Philly and Milwaukee) are changing a lot... They are growing, they are more diverse, and the people who live in them don't necessarily respond the dog whistles in quite the same way.

With respect to Detroit, it isn't L. Brooks Patterson's Oakland County anymore... People dont necessarily harbor the same animosities that they used to, and on a cultural level, especially seen during the Tigers and Lions playoffs runs, the "Detroit v Everyone" framing doesn't die off at Eight Mile

Yes, I'm definitely hoping that this strategy becomes less and less effective. The suburbs and even the exurbs are changing, as more and more people are priced out of the city (here anyway).

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Edman85 said:

I feel seen.

My take on the far left is not that it is nearly as bad as the far right these days, but it does fuel the extremists and can lead to a chicken little effect when not properly checked.

Assuming you and I define the far left similarly, I'm sure you'd agree that the far left is barely even a minuscule fraction of the size of the far right, and with even less of a fraction of the power and influence on the body politic. If I had to venture a guess on the numbers, I'd say the far left makes up maybe two percent of the population, while the far right makes up thirty percent. That's a function of how the far right has completely overrun one of our major political parties.

People like to equivocate and claim the far left has similarly overrun the Democratic Party, to which I can reply only, "come on." The Democrats treat the far left as a wild child who goes prodigal a lot. The party sure would like them to fall in come Election Day, but they can't count on the far left not peeling off in a snit and voting for Jill ****ing Stein instead (as if she were going to save Gaza from Israel).

Democrats don't cave to the far left because the far left isn't reliable, and besides, most of what animates the far left falls well outside the Party's policy positions, anyway. But Republicans must cave to literally everything the far right demands, because they currently hold the entire party hostage.

[Motown Bombers]

This rally in New York is absolutely insane. They're just saying it all out loud now. 

[Edman85]

Have they busted into Springtime for Hitler yet?

[LaceyLou]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Assuming you and I define the far left similarly, I'm sure you'd agree that the far left is barely even a minuscule fraction of the size of the far right, and with even less of a fraction of the power and influence on the body politic. If I had to venture a guess on the numbers, I'd say the far left makes up maybe two percent of the population, while the far right makes up thirty percent. That's a function of how the far right has completely overrun one of our major political parties.

People like to equivocate and claim the far left has similarly overrun the Democratic Party, to which I can reply only, "come on." The Democrats treat the far left as a wild child who goes prodigal a lot. The party sure would like them to fall in come Election Day, but they can't count on the far left not peeling off in a snit and voting for Jill ****ing Stein instead (as if she were going to save Gaza from Israel).

Democrats don't cave to the far left because the far left isn't reliable, and besides, most of what animates the far left falls well outside the Party's policy positions, anyway. But Republicans must cave to literally everything the far right demands, because they currently hold the entire party hostage.

I agree with you.

One thing to keep in mind is that MAGA portrays Biden and Obama as 'the far left.' More specifically, the 'far left' is anybody who disagrees with Drumpf-so in their eyes it's almost impossible for the Democrats to NOT be overrun by them.

You and I both know this isn't true, of course.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Yes. Take for example "defund the police."

And the Dems would be rightfully winning the border battles if the extreme voices on the left pushing for wide open borders 3-5 years ago hadn't given soundbites and fuel.

Democrats repudiated "defund the police" basically the day the so-called BLM movement first uttered it, because they knew it was the wrong way to phrase what it was they actually wanted to do, which was to shift much of the funding for dealing with people having mental episodes from police departments to social services departments, which I would agree with wholeheartedly. The party never embraced that phrase in any serious matter, and that goes double for Party leadership. The whole episode was one big gift to the Republicans so they could make hay on saddling Democrats with the phrase.

 

[LaceyLou]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Democrats repudiated "defund the police" basically the day the so-called BLM movement first uttered it, because they knew it was the wrong way to phrase what it was they actually wanted to do, which was to shift much of the funding for dealing with people having mental episodes from police departments to social services departments, which I would agree with wholeheartedly. The party never embraced that phrase in any serious matter, and that goes double for Party leadership. The whole episode was one big gift to the Republicans so they could make hay on saddling Democrats with the phrase.

 

This, and we also support summer and afterschool activities for youth, so that they can learn teamwork and leadership skills. 

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, LaceyLou said:

I agree with you.

One thing to keep in mind is that MAGA portrays Biden and Obama as 'the far left.' More specifically, the 'far left' is anybody who disagrees with Drumpf-so in their eyes it's almost impossible for the Democrats to NOT be overrun by them.

You and I both know this isn't true, of course.

Oh, I fully see how they characterize centrist Democrats as begin "far left", and it drives me bonkers. It's all branding and it works with their base. But it's not true, and I don't know why Democrats don't address it it in a more visible way, because by appearing to ignore it, they're ceding that point to Republicans, and that hurts the Democratic Party with the middle.

[mtutiger]

13 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

Yes, I'm definitely hoping that this strategy becomes less and less effective. The suburbs and even the exurbs are changing, as more and more people are priced out of the city (here anyway).

Martin kinda makes my point: Allentown (and Lehigh County) are seen as suburban in nature outside of Philly, and Allentown is of outsized importance with respect to Puerto Rican population in PA.

It's not your father's SEPA. And in a race where, based on reporting and his campaigns own words, he's depending on Hispanics to vote for him, these comments can make a pretty difference on the margins (at a minimum)

Edited Sunday at 10:29 PM by mtutiger

[romad1]

 

[LaceyLou]

Evidently, Drumpf's strategy wrt Gaza: campaign that Harris is behind Israel in places with higher Muslim populations, and that she is behind Palestine in places with higher Jewish populations. 

All this while promising to block any refugees from Gaza from entering the country. 

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

I've become much less sanguine about religious leaders manipulating, in-particular, low-information family members who report to me that Kamela can't form coherent sentences.  I know my sister knows nothing from politics and only hears things from within her own bubble which likely doesn't even include Fox News.   I have read Machiavelli and I know you can't openly disparage religion as a political leader with a future but man, the churches in this country have way too much power over their flocks if my sister's peasant mindset is any guide.

I know you don't like George Carlin, but he said something very salient along these lines back in 1989:

 

[mtutiger]

I'll say this: if you are conservative in a swing state longing for a new and improved GOP after this, especially knowing that Kamala Harris will in all likelihood be constrained by a GOP Senate...

What is there to lose? On a purely pragmatic level, how isn't the choice obvious?

Edited Sunday at 10:39 PM by mtutiger

[chasfh]

Just now, mtutiger said:

I'll say this: if you are conservative in a swing state longing for a new and improved GOP after this, especially knowing that Kamala Harris will in all likelihood be constrained by a GOP Senate...

What is there to lose? Isn't the choice on obvious?

Too many people have the worm Trump and the Russians put in their brains.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

If voters were voting on policy, Biden would have won in a landslide and not run out of the White House. 

What about the voters who didn't like his policy?

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Too many people have the worm Trump and the Russians put in their brains.

My question isn't aimed for the Trumpy base... It's aimed at those who don't like the direction of this party.

We have at least one of those here.

Edited Sunday at 10:46 PM by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Republican Congresswoman from South Florida 

Edited Sunday at 10:45 PM by mtutiger

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What about the voters who didn't like his policy?

Considering his policies are broadly popular, there's not many voters who don't like them. 

[mtutiger]

Wow. Wow