2024 Presidential Election thread

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

I’m not walking back that it might have happened because it’s in Trump and his pal Putin’s MO.  Your description of what i think is erroneous and fantastic. 

You were the one who dropped the credential card.  Then floated the RW violence would happen leading up to the election allegations along with staged assassination with no substantiating evidence of any kind. I hope folks will take pause reading some of your water cooler reports.

Edited 2 hours ago by Tigeraholic1

[Edman85]

[mtutiger]

From the Alberta piece, a couple of things stood out:

Quote

For the first 10 days following Biden’s departure from the race, Trump had listened dutifully as his campaign co-managers—a pair of longtime GOP consultants named Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita—explained that the fundamentals of their strategy remained solid. Nothing dramatic needed to change with Harris taking over the ticket, they told Trump, because she was inheriting the vulnerabilities they had exploited so successfully against Biden. They argued that whatever burst of money and enthusiasm had accompanied her entry into the race would prove short-lived—and warned him against overreacting. Staying the course, they told Trump, was the surest recipe for electoral success.

He went along with their plan—for a while. But every hour his campaign spent attacking Harris as if she were a credible opponent—rather than bludgeoning her as the airheaded, unqualified, empty pantsuit Trump was sure she was—gnawed at the former president. Finally, he ran out of patience. On July 31, during an onstage interview with the National Association of Black Journalists, Trump publicly unloaded the sort of race-baiting barbs that his aides had, up until that point, succeeded in containing to his private diatribes.

“I didn’t know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black,” Trump told the journalists onstage, eliciting gasps from the audience. “I don’t know, is she Indian or is she Black?”

LaCivita/Wiles are on the right side of this - when you think back to where this race was immediately post-drop out, and with Harris as the heir apparent, it was evident to almost anyone watching that it was a race to define her. And to drive a message on the issues to prevent her from getting separation from Biden.

When you fast forward to today, the project seems to have largely failed - Harris has seen her approval rating go way up to generally around even, about 10 points higher than Trump's, and in terms of policy, you have seen her on issues that were previous clear strengths for Trump (such as the economy/inflation and crime) draw to about even. Moments like the NABJ interview were an example of stepping on the message that the campaign wanted to make, and they are reaping the fallout today.

This is on the candidate - the campaign, at least in the immediate aftermath of the Biden dropout, was doing the kind of messaging that it needed to, but the candidate was never interested in that. And fast forward to today, although I know it's gone mentioned and unaddressed the couple of times I've brought it up, the campaign's paid advertising is closing on things like sex changes for prisoners. Not the economy, not crime, not even immigration.... transgender ads.

Quote

Vance’s first two months on the ticket were largely uneventful. His awkward, halting appearances fueled a sense of buyer’s remorse among some Trump confidants, but he made no mistakes of any real consequence. (The talk of “childless cat ladies” preceded his appointment to the GOP ticket, as did his remarks that he “would like abortion to be illegal nationally.”) And then came September 9. It was one day before Trump would meet Harris in Philadelphia for their first and only debate, and Vance, according to people familiar with the situation, was feeling punchy. Over the past several days, the young senator had marinated in right-wing agitprop stemming from Springfield, Ohio, where it was rumored that Haitian migrants were stealing and eating pets. When Vance’s allies on the campaign learned that he’d already spoken out about related issues in Springfield—how the influx of thousands of Haitian migrants who came legally to fill jobs had stressed the city—they urged him to seize on this conspiracist catnip and turn it into a crusade for the Trump campaign.

One staffer in particular—a young activist named Alex Bruesewitz—helped convince Vance and his team that this was an opportunity to put his stamp on the campaign. Vance agreed. “Reports now show that people have had their pets abducted and eaten by people who shouldn’t be in this country,” the senator posted on X, catching the Trump campaign’s leaders entirely off guard. Figuring there was no use in half measures, Bruesewitz led Vance’s minions in blasting the social-media post around their networks and urging officials on other GOP campaigns, as well as at the Republican National Committee, to join Vance’s assault on the migrant community of Springfield. (Bruesewitz did not respond to a request for comment about this story.)

Quote

Things appeared to stabilize from there. As September gave way to October, and Harris launched a major media offensive aimed at connecting with voters who still felt no familiarity with her, Trump’s campaign was delighted to cede the spotlight. Wiles and LaCivita believed that every moment Harris spent in front of live cameras translated to more Republican votes. Instead of trying to book Trump onto major networks, where his comments might produce negative news cycles, his team arranged a tour of podcasts, most of them aimed at young men. The effort was led by [Alex Bruesewitz], the impulsive young Vance sycophant who maintained an impressive network of right-wing influencers. The strategy appeared to work: For the first three weeks of October, Trump’s internal polling showed Harris’s momentum stalled—measured in both net favorability and vote share—while Trump’s numbers inched upward.

Quote

In truth, some of Trump’s senior staff hadn’t actually watched Hinchcliffe’s set. The Garden was a labyrinth of security checkpoints and political processions, and the event had barely been under way when he spoke. Now they were racing to catch up with the damage—and rewinding the clock to figure out how Hinchcliffe had ended up onstage in the first place.

It didn’t take long to get to the answer: Alex Bruesewitz.

Technically a mid-level staffer—formally a liaison to right-wing media, informally a terminally online troll and perpetual devil on the campaign’s shoulder—Bruesewitz had grown his profile inside Trump’s orbit. The candidate’s appearances on various bro-themed podcasts were hailed as acts of strategic genius. But there was one guest booking Bruesewitz couldn’t secure: He wanted Trump to talk with Hinchcliffe on his show, Kill Tony. When word got around that Trump was looking for opening acts at the Garden, Bruesewitz made the introductions. Trump’s head of planning and production, Justin Caporale, ran with the idea. No senior staff ever bothered to vet Hinchcliffe themselves.

Now, with their grand celebration quickly morphing into a public-relations nightmare, Trump’s allies stewed. Two decisions needed to be made, and quickly: whether to inform the man of the hour about this disaster before he took the stage, and whether to issue a statement rebuking Hinchcliffe and his remarks. Some staffers feared throwing Trump off his game at such a crucial moment, and others argued that showing any weakness would just make things worse. But LaCivita dictated a short statement to the communications team that was blasted out to reporters across the arena, distancing the campaign from Hinchcliffe, while Wiles pulled the former president aside and explained the situation. (Trump, aides told me, was merely annoyed at the time; only after watching television coverage the next morning would he rage about how Wiles, LaCivita, and Caporale had “****ed this up.”)

This low level staffer, responsible for the social media strategy geared toward younger men, is apparently the nexus for two of the largest **** ups that this campaign has experienced since July. Which is crazy.

[romad1]

43 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

You were the one who dropped the credential card.  Then floated the RW violence would happen leading up to the election allegations along with staged assassination with no substantiating evidence of any kind. I hope folks will take pause reading some of your water cooler reports.

They might. Thanks for posting your weird fan fic about them.

[romad1]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

From the Alberta piece, a couple of things stood out:

LaCivita/Wiles are on the right side of this - when you think back to where this race was immediately post-drop out, and with Harris as the heir apparent, it was evident to almost anyone watching that it was a race to define her. And to drive a message on the issues to prevent her from getting separation from Biden.

When you fast forward to today, the project seems to have largely failed - Harris has seen her approval rating go way up to generally around even, about 10 points higher than Trump's, and in terms of policy, you have seen her on issues that were previous clear strengths for Trump (such as the economy/inflation and crime) draw to about even. Moments like the NABJ interview were an example of stepping on the message that the campaign wanted to make, and they are reaping the fallout today.

This is on the candidate - the campaign, at least in the immediate aftermath of the Biden dropout, was doing the kind of messaging that it needed to, but the candidate was never interested in that. And fast forward to today, although I know it's gone mentioned and unaddressed the couple of times I've brought it up, the campaign's paid advertising is closing on things like sex changes for prisoners. Not the economy, not crime, not even immigration.... transgender ads.

This low level staffer, responsible for the social media strategy geared toward younger men, is apparently the nexus for two of the largest **** ups that this campaign has experienced since July. Which is crazy.

it’s a campaign about the ID.  It’s Universal Studios and your browser history vs Disney’s Magic Kingdom Main Street super ego.  Americans want to think they are the latter but so many of them are the former. 

[Motor City Sonics]

I voted last Tuesday.   I voted for myself in one of the judgeships.   It was because I could vote for no more than 18 and there were only 18 names.  So what was the point.  I selected none and wrote in myself.  

[Tigeraholic1]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

I just read the USSS released another report yesterday.  The news article cited the lack of farm equipment that was supposed to block the line of site from those buildings. Pre planning said they would be there.  Also failures in meetings before hand with multiple agencies present.  They were not well attended. And the heat of the day required many attendees be given medical treatment and that diverted the efforts of law enforcement.  That’s on top of what we already have heard.  

Water cooler cables are reporting KGB operatives moved the farm equipment off the property.😂

[romad1]

7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Water cooler cables are reporting KGB operatives moved the farm equipment off the property.😂

Are they?

Thats interesting.

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The lack of investigative results is suspicious but not necessarily of staging - just as likely the SS doing CYA. There is no question that the Trump camp put out false information about the degree of his wound. Penny sized tears in cartilage do not heal without a trace in 30 days. And of course the problem with dishonesty in one aspect is that it only casts doubt on all the others so Trump has only himself to blame if he is doubted.

I do not believe the assassination attempt was staged, but I don't think he was hit by a bullet either.  I think he was hit by schrapnel.  It's just hard to believe that a bullet from an AR-15 would do so little damage.  Whether he knew that he was not hit by a bullet at the moment of his almost too good to be true photo op, I am not sure.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Tiger337

[LaceyLou]

What I don't understand is why it's so important to him for people to think he was hit by a bullet. Isn't being shot at serious enough all by itself?

[oblong]

I don’t think it was staged. Never bought into it. Too many agencies and people would have to be involved for it to work. That kind of thing just isn’t possible in reality. I don’t believe in JFK conspiracies either.  Too many things outside the control of planners had to fall into place. I could spend hours explaining why.  It’s easy to look back at an event and speculate but that assumes all the events happening naturally that led up to it.  

[Tigerbomb13]

Yep the fact that two people died, it would have been impossible to cover something like that up. 

[gehringer_2]

25 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

What I don't understand is why it's so important to him for people to think he was hit by a bullet. Isn't being shot at serious enough all by itself?

I suppose because in his mind, if he was only hit by a bit of flying glass, then Comperatore's death might have become a bigger story than he would be.

[mtutiger]

56 minutes ago, romad1 said:

it’s a campaign about the ID.  It’s Universal Studios and your browser history vs Disney’s Magic Kingdom Main Street super ego.  Americans want to think they are the latter but so many of them are the former. 

I think more are the latter than the former, though. And that's the problem. That's the disconnect that his campaign falls into, IMO.

The same story goes for the media too... a lot of people got burned by 2016, many of us included. But the political media, largely based in NY and Washington, went from "no one could possibly vote for this guy" to "those idiots in Middle America all just love this guy." And there's just way more nuance to it... believe it or not, the middle of the country has cities and suburbs and smaller cities ... the lack of contact left a blindspot in 2016 that suggested Hillary was stronger than she was, and perhaps that lack of contact sets up the same cliff that existed eight years later.

Edited 1 hour ago by mtutiger

[Edman85]

22 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don’t think it was staged. Never bought into it. Too many agencies and people would have to be involved for it to work. That kind of thing just isn’t possible in reality. I don’t believe in JFK conspiracies either.  Too many things outside the control of planners had to fall into place. I could spend hours explaining why.  It’s easy to look back at an event and speculate but that assumes all the events happening naturally that led up to it.  

Right. Conan O'Brien of all people got me thinking on conspiracy theories. The pure amount of people who need to keep a secret and execute to plan makes the most elaborate of conspiracies unlikely.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, LaceyLou said:

The only problem is that it's true that a lot of people are struggling with bills, and living paycheck to paycheck-and we do all need to remember this and address these issues. He's one of the reasons that people point to Democrats as being out of touch elitists. 

What he does get right is that this isn't a new thing, but something that has gradually gotten worse for more people over the past 40-50 years. He's also right that inflation wasn't caused by Biden and that it's actually slowed down on his watch. I only hope that Harris's campaign has gotten this message to enough people. 

There is no doubt that income equality has steadily gotten worse for decades and that it isn't being addressed enough, not even by the Democrats.  We do more for the wealthy than anybody else.  

I actually do think that many Democrats are out of touch elitists.  Rural areas in trouble have been largely been ridiculed over the years.  The states are called fly over states and the residents are called rednecks.  Then they tell them that they have to be nice to the big city minorities who are also disadvantaged (in a different and worse way).  This is part of why rural states hate Democrats.  What they got wrong was not recognizing that Trump is even worse.  

[romad1]

9 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Right. Conan O'Brien of all people got me thinking on conspiracy theories. The pure amount of people who need to keep a secret and execute to plan makes the most elaborate of conspiracies unlikely.

They usually are exposed.  

[romad1]

This did happen in 2016 though.

https://x.com/mpdillon/status/1852716929888235902?s=46&t=76Y1aNflZsD8yrwQrvLC2g

[smr-nj]

I don’t believe it was staged.

I don’t believe it was perpetrated by the opponent candidate.

I do believe it was a cluster-f of bad security that day by SS & local authorities.

I was, and am unnerved that this could happen to a candidate at any level.
 

I do also think it wasn’t the bullet that hit him, but shrapnel, or broken glass, but regardless it was just unbelievably lucky that he wasn’t seriously hurt or killed.

 I also think it’s disgusting that his campaign and sycophants have promoted the false narrative that it was an assassination attempt that came from the Democratic side, and that somehow someone should take a shot at Harris.

And, no, he’s no hero. Give me a break.

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

I don’t believe it was staged.

I don’t believe it was perpetrated by the opponent candidate.

I do believe it was a cluster-f of bad security that day by SS & local authorities.

I was, and am unnerved that this could happen to a candidate at any level.
 

I do also think it wasn’t the bullet that hit him, but shrapnel, or broken glass, but regardless it was just unbelievably lucky that he wasn’t seriously hurt or killed.

 I also think it’s disgusting that his campaign and sycophants have promoted the false narrative that it was an assassination attempt that came from the Democratic side, and that somehow someone should take a shot at Harris.

And, no, he’s no hero. Give me a break.

I know people who seriously believe that he took a bullet for his country!

[Tigeraholic1]

59 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Are they?

Thats interesting.

You so want it to be true though. Still pounding that drum so hard, weird.

 

 

[oblong]

23 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Right. Conan O'Brien of all people got me thinking on conspiracy theories. The pure amount of people who need to keep a secret and execute to plan makes the most elaborate of conspiracies unlikely.

In a mid 90s stand up special Dana Carvey did a bit about framing OJ Simpson.  
 

 

[LaceyLou]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

There is no doubt that income equality has steadily gotten worse for decades and that it isn't being addressed enough, not even by the Democrats.  We do more for the wealthy than anybody else.  

I actually do think that many Democrats are out of touch elitists.  Rural areas in trouble have been largely been ridiculed over the years.  The states are called fly over states and the residents are called rednecks.  Then they tell them that they have to be nice to the big city minorities who are also disadvantaged (in a different and worse way).  This is part of why rural states hate Democrats.  What they got wrong was not recognizing that Trump is even worse.  

It's true, as I've said before I grew up in rural America, and have family in 'flyover states,' and I do know some people who go for the stereotypes. That said, most of the people I know in the city are hardworking people, some of whom struggle to make ends meet, and it's pretty laughable that we're referred to as elites.

This is an us vs. them war that was started by the oligarchs and I'm sad to say it has been very effective.

[CMRivdogs]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I do not believe the assassination attempt was staged, but I don't think he was hit by a bullet either.  I think he was hit by schrapnel.  It's just hard to believe that a bullet from an AR-15 would do so little damage.  Whether he knew that he was not hit by a bullet at the moment of his almost too good to be true photo op, I am not sure.  

I’m leaning in that direction as well. I’ve nicked my ears shaving occasionally and it draws a lot of blood. Also Trump seems to be a super fast healer. My scabs usually take a couple weeks to completely heal. His ear seem healed in an extremely short time after the shooting.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

It's true, as I've said before I grew up in rural America, and have family in 'flyover states,' and I do know some people who go for the stereotypes. That said, most of the people I know in the city are hardworking people, some of whom struggle to make ends meet, and it's pretty laughable that we're referred to as elites.

This is an us vs. them war that was started by the oligarchs and I'm sad to say it has been very effective.

Divide and conquer for sure.