2024 Presidential Election thread

[ewsieg]

2 of the 3 examples don't even include spending cuts.  I doubt they would offer any cuts for 24%.  35% and possibly they agree to 'cut' funding resulting in a smaller increase than they originally propose, for instance instead of 12% for HHS, they agree to cut that to a 10% increase.

[Tiger337]

 

 

  On 11/6/2023 at 3:47 PM, 1984Echoes said:

It already did.

In 2020.

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No it didn't.  Trump got the second most votes in history.  Fortunately Biden got the first most.  It will gake another historic turnout to beat him again.  Trump still has a ton of support.  

I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that Trump is sinking.  You've been saying it for 8 years.  It's just wishful thinking.  

[Edman85]

  On 11/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, 1984Echoes said:

A 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump.

FYI.

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No, it's a vote for a third party person.

[mtutiger]

  On 11/6/2023 at 4:38 PM, Tiger337 said:

I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that Trump is sinking.  You've been saying it for 8 years.  It's just wishful thinking.  

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Trump isn't sinking, but I also dont think everything he does is brilliant politically and that his brand is almost entirely built on holding a certain percentage of the GOP Primary electorate (which, no, is not a representative sample of the American public).

I would argue that some of the poor performances in Midterms and Special Elections since 2020 are a pretty good example of the liabilities he presents... candidates who pushed the big lie in swing states tended to do a lot worse than normal counterparts, for instance.

I just think some folks people (those who support him and who don't) attribute God-like qualities to him when he really doesn't deserve that kind of regard. He's eminently beatable and not well liked in his own regard, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

Edited November 6, 2023 by mtutiger

[1776]

  On 11/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, 1984Echoes said:

A 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump.

FYI.

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Let’s say Trump wins the nomination. Nikki Haley opts to run as an independent as a result. In the general election a vote for Haley would be a vote for Biden, would it not? 
Haley cost Trump votes without question. I don’t see Biden losing many (or any) votes to Haley. 

 

[MIguy]

Anyone happen to be catching Alina Habba's remarks outside of court?  The willingness of some people to torpedo their professional career for this dude is mind boggling to me.  

[CMRivdogs]

From The Bullwerk and Jonathan Last today

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/the-anyone-but-biden-fantasy?utm_campaign=email-post&r=45wcm&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Let’s play a game.

I’m going to give you a bunch of results from this poll and then ask you to create a coherent explanation for them in the comments. Your challenge is to explain a worldview in which the following responses are internally consistent.

Voters told the NYT poll:

• 56 percent have a somewhat unfavorable or unfavorable view of Trump.

• Asked who would be better for “democracy,” voters give Biden a 48-45 edge.

• 51 percent say that following the 2020 election, Trump “threatened democracy.”

• 54 percent believe Trump has committed “serious federal crimes.”

• 52 percent say they do not think he will be convicted of any crimes.

  • Yet if he is convicted and sentenced to prison, then suddenly we get Biden 49 percent, Trump 39 percent.3

• Asked if it would be “bad for the country” if Biden or Trump won:

  • Biden would be bad for the country: 44 percent

  • Trump would be bad for the country: 46 percent

• Again: The net voting preference in this poll is Trump 48, Biden 44.

Draw me a picture and tell me how that all fits together.

[MIguy]

This is just a little taste.   

 

 

[CMRivdogs]

  On 11/6/2023 at 6:36 PM, MIguy said:

This is just a little taste.   

 

 

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Sounds like a threat to me

[1776]

Where on earth does Trump come up with all these back street lawyers?

[Tiger337]

  On 11/6/2023 at 5:35 PM, mtutiger said:

Trump isn't sinking, but I also dont think everything he does is brilliant politically and that his brand is almost entirely built on holding a certain percentage of the GOP Primary electorate (which, no, is not a representative sample of the American public).

I would argue that some of the poor performances in Midterms and Special Elections since 2020 are a pretty good example of the liabilities he presents... candidates who pushed the big lie in swing states tended to do a lot worse than normal counterparts, for instance.

I just think some folks people (those who support him and who don't) attribute God-like qualities to him when he really doesn't deserve that kind of regard. He's eminently beatable and not well liked in his own regard, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

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LOL, There is nothing brilliant about him at all.  I agree he deserves no regard. He's an idiot.   He is really good at BS though and gets a lot of help from the media.  He hasn't lost any significant support in 8 years.  He's hard to beat when your candidates are completely uninspiring.  

[Sports_Freak]

So....did Trump endorse Biden yet? That sure would be the kiss of death. Trump endorses every loser...🤣🤣

[Sports_Freak]

  On 11/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, Tiger337 said:

LOL, There is nothing brilliant about him at all.  I agree he deserves no regard. He's an idiot.   He is really good at BS though and gets a lot of help from the media.  He hasn't lost any significant support in 8 years.  He's hard to beat when your candidates are completely uninspiring.  

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He could lose again and still be elected POTUS. The GOP is doing everything they can to cheat and steal every election that matters. People need to open their eyes...

[mtutiger]

  On 11/6/2023 at 6:39 PM, 1776 said:

Where on earth does Trump come up with all these back street lawyers?

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Jenna Ellis with a New York accent, this one...

[CMRivdogs]

 

The Trump campaign and Presidency in a nutshell

 

[gehringer_2]

  On 11/6/2023 at 1:58 PM, ewsieg said:

What makes you think the Democrats wouldn't block that as well?  

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The last time the balance was close to balanced was under a Dem Admin wasn't it (Clinton). I really can't fathom all the people who think the GOP is good the debt when every single time they get in they blow it up. Make zero sense to me. 

Debt is the difference between income and outgo. Just because the Dems are more expansive on the outgo doesn't make them worse on the debt than the GOP because the GOP is totally off the wall irresponsible about the income side. Anyone with eyes just needs to look at the GOP House charade of cutting IRS funding in the the name of budget when every $ the IRS losses costs the Treasury something like multiple $ in enforcement losses to understand how serious the GOP is about debt.

Edited November 6, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

  On 11/6/2023 at 7:06 PM, gehringer_2 said:

The last time the balance was close to balanced was under a Dem Admin wasn't it (Clinton). I really can't fathom all the people who think the GOP is good the debt when every single time they get in they blow it up. Make zero sense to me. 

Debt is the difference between income and outgo. Just because the Dems are more expansive on the outgo doesn't make them worse on the debt than the GOP because the GOP is totally off the wall irresponsible about the income side. Anyone with eyes just needs to look at the GOP House charade of cutting IRS funding in the the name of budget when every $ the IRS losses costs the Treasury something like multiple $ in enforcement losses to understand how serious the GOP is about debt.

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People believe what their leaders tell them if they repeat themselves often enough.  

[1984Echoes]

The GOP is all about lining their own pockets in any way that they possibly can (and staying in power in order to do so) and **** everybody else, **** the budget, **** balancing the budget, **** the country, **** Democracy, **** the truth, **** Social Security, **** freedom and free will, **** the Constitution of the United States...

As long as they can stay in power, no matter the cost (in lies/ fascism/ or otherwise), tell everyone how they are required to live their lives (according to their Bible readings), and line their pockets with tax cuts that benefit only them... They good.

 

[ewsieg]

  On 11/6/2023 at 7:06 PM, gehringer_2 said:

The last time the balance was close to balanced was under a Dem Admin wasn't it (Clinton). I really can't fathom all the people who think the GOP is good the debt when every single time they get in they blow it up. Make zero sense to me. 

Debt is the difference between income and outgo. Just because the Dems are more expansive on the outgo doesn't make them worse on the debt than the GOP because the GOP is totally off the wall irresponsible about the income side. Anyone with eyes just needs to look at the GOP House charade of cutting IRS funding in the the name of budget when every $ the IRS losses costs the Treasury something like multiple $ in enforcement losses to understand how serious the GOP is about debt.

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In no way was my response meant to show any support for the GOP and the budget.  That said, isn't it the congress that 'holds the purse strings'?  Who controlled congress under Clinton?  😉

My only point is while most of us say a combination of tax hikes and controlled spending is needed to balance the budget, the left never promotes anything but tax hikes while the right traditionally only points to spending to control it.  

It also has only happened for a few times, all in a short set of continuous years in my 47 years on this earth, under both democrats and republicans in the WH and congress.

Edited November 6, 2023 by ewsieg

[mtutiger]

  On 11/6/2023 at 1:09 PM, mtutiger said:

Setting aside the disaster that an open primary process would be (again, people are underestimating the fallout of bypassing Harris, particularly with AA voters), I have never understood why people think Gavin Newsom would be a good candidate for President.

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Bump...

Genuinely curious about why this guy keeps getting floated.

[mtutiger]

  On 11/6/2023 at 7:26 PM, ewsieg said:

My only point is while most of us say a combination of tax hikes and controlled spending is needed to balance the budget, the left never promotes anything but tax hikes while the right traditionally only points to spending to control it.  

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That would require compromise. And there are few people in today's day and age willing to accept any compromises politically.

Different example, but as someone who just moved from Texas (ie. the most gerrymandered state in the country) to Illinois (ie. the second-most gerrymandered state in the country), it's why I kinda laugh when conservatives complain about how the lines are drawn here - gerrymandering is a scourge, but if we are being honest with ourselves, it's not going away nationally without some sort of consensus or understanding between the parties.

But that's not gonna happen, so....

[oblong]

  On 11/6/2023 at 7:39 PM, mtutiger said:

That would require compromise. And there are few people in today's day and age willing to accept any compromises politically.

Different example, but as someone who just moved from Texas (ie. the most gerrymandered state in the country) to Illinois (ie. the second-most gerrymandered state in the country), it's why I kinda laugh when conservatives complain about how the lines are drawn here - gerrymandering is a scourge, but if we are being honest with ourselves, it's not going away nationally without some sort of consensus or understanding between the parties.

But that's not gonna happen, so....

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It’s only wasteful spending when it’s the other side.  It’s only gerrymandering when it’s the other side. 
 

And in some situations a gerrymander is the result of complying with the VRA. 

[chasfh]

  On 11/6/2023 at 6:26 PM, MIguy said:

Anyone happen to be catching Alina Habba's remarks outside of court?  The willingness of some people to torpedo their professional career for this dude is mind boggling to me.  

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She's doing it for the same reason they're all doing it: they're betting on a Trump presidential win, the end of democracy, and the dawn of a new American era of fascism during which they will have cushy lifetime appointments, loads of taxpayer money as compensation, and the ability to liquidate opponents with the mere wave of a hand.

[gehringer_2]

  On 11/6/2023 at 7:39 PM, mtutiger said:

gerrymandering is a scourge, but if we are being honest with ourselves, it's not going away nationally without some sort of consensus or understanding between the parties.

But that's not gonna happen, so....

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In the states like MI with citizen initiative it's been done away with the GOP kicking and screaming all the way through a series of court challenges that were all rejected.

 

[Tigerbomb13]

  On 11/6/2023 at 6:39 PM, 1776 said:

Where on earth does Trump come up with all these back street lawyers?

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When you go in defending him knowing that a) you will likely not get paid for your services, and b) will likely have to lawyer up yourself eventually, it doesn’t leave a pool of the best of the bunch.