Motown Bombers Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: He is just calling a spade a spade. I know it is hard to look in mirror some times. Says the guy who got bent out of shape when I called someone who voted for a Nazi a Nazi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 After Trump lost in 2020, all republicans did was double down on MAGA. No postmortem or introspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Says the guy who got bent out of shape when I called someone who voted for a Nazi a Nazi. OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 Biden administration did more for working class whites than any administration in decades. Trump did nothing for them; will do nothing for them. It really is a pure messaging issue. Dems needs to build massive social media platforms to reach these people. I would suggest even if the Dems do nothing to help these people, just lie and say you did. Say you cut their taxes (whether you did or not); say you increased their SS checks (whether you did or not); say you brought in more jobs (whether you did or not) actual accomplishments mean nothing - it's all vibes, so don't focus on helping people, focus on lying to them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaceyLou Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: After Trump lost in 2020, all republicans did was double down on MAGA. No postmortem or introspection. Introspection is fine, to an extent. What we really need to do is find better ways to counter the massive amount of misinformation that bots and pro-Drumpf ads were able to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 When was the last time someone served as VP and went back into state politics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 (edited) 24 minutes ago, 1776 said: You’ll never win with this guy. He is considered extreme in his viewpoints. He IS a good Democrat, but you’d be out of business when you’re appealing to the full electorate for support. I agree, and I even like the guy. Setting aside both of our views and just looking objectively, one conundrum here as I see it is that the Democratic Party is a really big tent right now and there are a lot of cross pressures between the historical base of the party (working class, union members) and professional class (suburbanites who have recently folded into the party, tend to be white collar). The EC is a factor here too.... MI/WI/PA (overrepresented by the former type of voter) along with the rest of the deeper blue states all add up to exactly 270 today - but that won't be the case forever.... and even now, you have to compete in states that demographically are more like that latter and for which working class policies don't necessarily land the same way (particularly in GA/NC, which are historically hostile to unions). And along with all of that is the tendency of union members, frankly like most Americans, to signal on culture more than economic policies in today's day and age. The Teamsters fiasco this summer is an excellent example - President Biden did, in fact, bail out their pension fund in late 2022. Yet their national leadership (likely reflecting their wishes of membership, at least to some degree) didn't endorse anyway. I do still think that the environment mattered more than anything else here, but this (along with / in conjunction with their issues with Latino voters) are puzzles that need to be solved. And a lot of that is going to rest on raising the salience of economic issues over cultural ones... I have theories on how that may be achievable, but I'm guessing that a lot of more leftists types wouldn't like them much. Edited November 7 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 2 hours ago, LaceyLou said: one thing that the Biden administration has tried to do is to tackle the root cause of illegal immigration. The one perfectly valid tactical criticism of the Biden admin is that they could have revised the criteria for asylum from the get go and that would have cut down the flow a great deal - maybe defused the issue by 2024, but they would not do it because it's a hot bottom for the left side of the party. A choice was made to keep the party together on the issue if possible. That is another reason the GOP was willing to see the bill go down to defeat and the Dems wanted the bill so badly - it would have given the admin cover with the left for tightening the asylum process - which they eventually had to do anyway. Those are just some reality checks for how policy evolved. Did any of it make a difference Tuesday? Who knows? The exit polls I saw weren't rating immigration as that high on the list, but it's possible R voters who were willing to believe illegal crossings were down believed if the Dems won they'd relax it again. But again, looking at the numbers the problem wasn't that the Dems didn't reach GOP voters, it's that they didn't reach their own, so I don't know if spending a lot of time post morteming about how the Dems didn't reach GOP voters answers the most important of the Dem's problems. Or you take an alternate line and say that to win the Dems need to jettison a portion of the Obama/Biden electorate that is too unreliable or too sexist and recruit ex-repubs to replace them. That would mean trying to become more a center than center left party. The party was in that space once under Bill Clinton, but whether today's Dems have a positive or negative view of Bill, most Dems reject his GOP-lite policy approaches, so not so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: When was the last time someone served as VP and went back into state politics? Humphrey went back to the Senate. But your answer is Levi Morton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 20 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: It really is a pure messaging issue. Dems needs to build massive social media platforms to reach these people. Maybe not so high tech. I'd start with the Dems finding a left handed version of Rush LImbaugh to sit on low tech afternoon AM radio and pull tradesman away from RW talk radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 (edited) 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Maybe not so high tech. I'd start with the Dems finding a left handed version of Rush LImbaugh to sit on low tech afternoon AM radio and pull tradesman away from RW talk radio. They need to up their media game no doubt, but I think engaging R and R leaning media more often does more good than harm and they should do it more often. Outside of Pete Buttigieg, I can't think of one upper echelon D pol that actually does that; Walz/Harris both did some of that at the end with Fox and Harris discussed doing Rogan, but going forward that needs to happen more often. Edited November 7 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The one perfectly valid tactical criticism of the Biden admin is that they could have revised the criteria for asylum from the get go and that would have cut down the flow a great deal - maybe defused the issue by 2024, but they would not do it because it's a hot bottom for the left side of the party. A choice was made to keep the party together on the issue if possible. That is another reason the GOP was willing to see the bill go down to defeat and the Dems wanted the bill so badly - it would have given the admin cover with the left for tightening the asylum process - which they eventually had to do anyway. Those are just some reality checks for how policy evolved. Did any of it make a difference Tuesday? Who knows? The exit polls I saw weren't rating immigration as that high on the list, but it's possible R voters who were willing to believe illegal crossings were down believed if the Dems won they'd relax it again. But again, looking at the numbers the problem wasn't that the Dems didn't reach GOP voters, it's that they didn't reach their own, so I don't know if spending a lot of time post morteming about how the Dems didn't reach GOP voters answers the most important of the Dem's problems. Or you take an alternate line and say that to win the Dems need to jettison a portion of the Obama/Biden electorate that is too unreliable or too sexist and recruit ex-repubs to replace them. That would mean trying to become more a center than center left party. The party was in that space once under Bill Clinton, but whether today's Dems have a positive or negative view of Bill, most Dems reject his GOP-lite policy approaches, so not so easy. Another instance of Biden acquiescing to the left and getting nothing. The next nominee is going to be in the mold of Bill Clinton who supports free trade and no tariffs. No student debt cancellation and no president ever again will end a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted November 7 Author Share Posted November 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 This guy was Trump's dinner date. I don't know about the kinds of people you have over for dinner, but I hope they aren't like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaceyLou Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: This guy was Trump's dinner date. I don't know about the kinds of people you have over for dinner, but I hope they aren't like this. It's more than a little upsetting how these guys have come out of the woodwork, and are gleefully proclaiming that not only do they not have the right to control their own bodies, but they have every right to violate them. And others have come out asking if it's okay to admit they really are planning to try to implement project 2025. I have yet to see a single Trumper acknowledge that unlike their idol, Harris is conceding the election as gracefully as possible under the circumstances, along with other Democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 I hate to agree with Matt Y... But he's spot on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 10 minutes ago, LaceyLou said: It's more than a little upsetting how these guys have come out of the woodwork, and are gleefully proclaiming that not only do they not have the right to control their own bodies, but they have every right to violate them. And others have come out asking if it's okay to admit they really are planning to try to implement project 2025. I have yet to see a single Trumper acknowledge that unlike their idol, Harris is conceding the election as gracefully as possible under the circumstances, along with other Democrats. Even beyond cretins like this guy, just from a couple of conversations I had at work yesterday, I really do think that there are a lot of normie males who take DJT's "that's a state rights issue now" way too much at face value. The lies we tell ourselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 2 hours ago, 1776 said: Using your logic it’s as simple as saying that anybody that casts a vote for anyone other than Harris is a racist. OK I said something very different from that, but here's a question for you: what percentage of Democratic Party voters do you think are racist or sexist enough that they would not vote for Kamala because she is either black or a woman? Do you think it's absolutely zero? Or do you think there is some percentage of Democratic Party voters who would not do so, and what do you think that percentage might be, in numbers? Just looking for a swag of how racist/sexist you think Democrats are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 The Dems best move get the working man back is sit back and let Trump **** everything up with Tarrifs, union busting, overtime rules, and skyrocketing healthcare. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 Left needs to go French Revolution and make the 1% the enemy. Let them eat cake. The ignorant only understand fear and hate but they need it pointed in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 44 minutes ago, Hongbit said: The Dems best move get the working man back is sit back and let Trump **** everything up with Tarrifs, union busting, overtime rules, and skyrocketing healthcare. I actually agree with this quite a bit. I think of Trump reignited inflation, caused the fed to have to raise interest rates yet again, enabled recession conditions, and created food and labor shortages with mass deportations that could be a death knell. His whole theory of the case is that he is a business super genius who alone can fix the economy himself. I do wonder if all the worst case economic scenarios were to play out would the emporer finally have no clothes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 18 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Left needs to go French Revolution and make the 1% the enemy. Let them eat cake. The ignorant only understand fear and hate but they need it pointed in the right direction. THIS. YESSSSSSS. Democrats need to vilify rich people, billionaires, and big corporations. We need left wing populism and make people have disdain for the wealthy elites who are truly holding us down. John Edwards, of all people, had a great narrative about this when he talked about Our America vs. Their America. One America for the rest of us and one for the wealthy. We need populist messaging without the socialism framing of Sanders. This is why I want a guy like Shawn Fain for 2028. He can be our populist outsider with disdain for the wealthy elites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 6 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I can't speak for another's actions. I do know the majority of voting American's have moved past that question as evident in the last election results. I think the majority dosn't know about it. That's why he continues to scam them with coins, watches, sneakers,etc on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, LaceyLou said: I have yet to see a single Trumper acknowledge that unlike their idol, Harris is conceding the election as gracefully as possible under the circumstances, along with other Democrats. I commented to my wife twice that her actions are to be commended. Seriously. I thought the political texts were over but no, I’ve received two asking for money on behalf of Kari Lake in her race. I’m going to let you guys take it from here. 🍿 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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