2024 Presidential Election thread

[Screwball]

3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

THIS. YESSSSSSS. Democrats need to vilify rich people, billionaires, and big corporations. We need left wing populism and make people have disdain for the wealthy elites who are truly holding us down. John Edwards, of all people, had a great narrative about this when he talked about Our America vs. Their America. One America for the rest of us and one for the wealthy. We need populist messaging without the socialism framing of Sanders.

This is why I want a guy like Shawn Fain for 2028. He can be our populist outsider with disdain for the wealthy elites.

I hate to break this to you, but those are the people pulling the strings of the democratic party.

[Tiger337]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’ll take this to mean you agree that I am not extreme left after all.

I think you are too pessimistic about some things, but not extreme left.  

Edited November 8 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Screwball said:

I hate to break this to you, but those are the people pulling the strings of the democratic party.

And also the Republican party.  Neither party is ever going to touch the billionaires.  

[Tigeraholic1]

39 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Oh, I havent forgotten you, pal. I’m still waiting for receipts from you that I’m “extreme left”. Until you produce them, you’re full of **** on this one.

Your resume speaks itself. You hate cops, military and religion. 

[Screwball]

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

And also the Republican party.  Neither party is ever going to touch the billionaires.  

The billionaires are the party

The rest is bread and circuses for those falling down drunk on blue and red bull****

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Your resume speaks itself. You hate cops, military and religion. 

Exactly as much as you hate immigrants, education, and democracy.

[mtutiger]

10 hours ago, Screwball said:

The billionaires are the party

Would you agree that Donald Trump, who benefitted from hundreds of millions of dollars during the campaign from a cadre of his own billionaires, is "the party" as well?

Your logic would seem to place him there

Edited November 8 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

10 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Your resume speaks itself. You hate cops, military and religion. 

 

19 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Exactly as much as you hate immigrants, education, and democracy.

I don't think either of you guys hate any of these things FWIW.

Edited November 8 by mtutiger

[1776]

On a side note, Daniel Lurie has defeated London Breed in the race for SF Mayor. Lurie is heir to the Levi Strauss family. 
Breed has conceded the race. He’s a native of the city and promises to bring it back to its more appealing past. I wish him well and hope he succeeds. 

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, 1776 said:

On a side note, Daniel Lurie has defeated London Breed in the race for SF Mayor. Lurie is heir to the Levi Strauss family. 
Breed has conceded the race. He’s a native of the city and promises to bring it back to its more appealing past. I wish him well and hope he succeeds. 

I've seen many different theories about why this election went the way that it did, but I do think governance in blue states is a huge huge factor. Especially at the mayoral level in various cities. States like NY, NJ, IL saw pretty significant turnout drops.

Cannot help but think that Brandon Johnson being way out of his depth is a big reason why IL swung even further to the right than the country as a whole did this time around, for instance...

[1776]

I’ll admit, these numbers surprise me…

From the Wall Street Journal:

The former president nearly won a demographic that Republicans haven’t won in at least five decades—racking up 42% of the Latino vote, compared with 35% in the 2020 race and 28% in 2016, according to a survey of voters by the Associated Press and data from the Cornell University Roper Center. Trump very nearly won Latino men overall, garnering 47% support, the AP survey found.

The results confirm a trend that pollsters first noticed in the 2020 election: That growing numbers of Latino voters, who for decades have voted roughly 2-1 for Democrats, were becoming far more open to voting for Republican candidates, especially Trump.

That has huge implications for both parties. There are now 36.2 million Hispanics eligible to vote, more than double the 14.3 million eligible in 2000. Latinos now are ahead of Black and Asian-American voters and behind only whites.

[Tigeraholic1]

10 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I’ll admit, these numbers surprise me…

From the Wall Street Journal:

The former president nearly won a demographic that Republicans haven’t won in at least five decades—racking up 42% of the Latino vote, compared with 35% in the 2020 race and 28% in 2016, according to a survey of voters by the Associated Press and data from the Cornell University Roper Center. Trump very nearly won Latino men overall, garnering 47% support, the AP survey found.

The results confirm a trend that pollsters first noticed in the 2020 election: That growing numbers of Latino voters, who for decades have voted roughly 2-1 for Democrats, were becoming far more open to voting for Republican candidates, especially Trump.

That has huge implications for both parties. There are now 36.2 million Hispanics eligible to vote, more than double the 14.3 million eligible in 2000. Latinos now are ahead of Black and Asian-American voters and behind only whites.

The left told us that American Latino's want more illegal immigration. Weird

[pfife]

36 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I’ll admit, these numbers surprise me…

From the Wall Street Journal:

The former president nearly won a demographic that Republicans haven’t won in at least five decades—racking up 42% of the Latino vote, compared with 35% in the 2020 race and 28% in 2016, according to a survey of voters by the Associated Press and data from the Cornell University Roper Center. Trump very nearly won Latino men overall, garnering 47% support, the AP survey found.

The results confirm a trend that pollsters first noticed in the 2020 election: That growing numbers of Latino voters, who for decades have voted roughly 2-1 for Democrats, were becoming far more open to voting for Republican candidates, especially Trump.

That has huge implications for both parties. There are now 36.2 million Hispanics eligible to vote, more than double the 14.3 million eligible in 2000. Latinos now are ahead of Black and Asian-American voters and behind only whites.

I think this is a major theme of the election and beyond.   I cant tell you how many years ive been hearing smarty pants pundits say that the GOP was demographically doomed in the future because of the large increase in Latino population but that clearly is not the case

[RatkoVarda]

4 minutes ago, pfife said:

I think this is a major theme of the election and beyond.   I cant tell you how many years ive been hearing smarty pants pundits say that the GOP was demographically doomed in the future because of the large increase in Latino population but that clearly is not the case

Latinos also tend to be culturally conservative, so to the extent that Dems are "out there" (both real and imagined), Latinos are not necessarily aligned with Dems.

As soon as Latinos decided that being part of the ruling party was more important that the racism and the insults, the change was probably pretty easy

Also, like Muslim men, a lot of Latino men don't want to vote for a woman.

[Tiger337]

If it got to the point where the majority of Latinos supported the Republicans, there would be no more talk of deportation.  

Edited November 8 by Tiger337

[pfife]

5 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Latinos also tend to be culturally conservative, so to the extent that Dems are "out there" (both real and imagined), Latinos are not necessarily aligned with Dems.

As soon as Latinos decided that being part of the ruling party was more important that the racism and the insults, the change was probably pretty easy

Also, like Muslim men, a lot of Latino men don't want to vote for a woman.

I ded agree about the culturally conservative part.   I think im not as sure about the voting for a woman part but could be the case

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, pfife said:

I think this is a major theme of the election and beyond.   I cant tell you how many years ive been hearing smarty pants pundits say that the GOP was demographically doomed in the future because of the large increase in Latino population but that clearly is not the case

A couple of things:

• Latino voters aren't a monolith - not only do they come from different places, but at this point in time in the Latino experience, many of them are pretty far separated from the immigrant experience. We have more second and third generation Latinos, and the things that appeal to recent migrants =/= to those who have assimilated into the American experience.
• Latino voters are more acutely impacted by economics than just about every demographic group

I do think the Democrats have an opportunity to win some of this support back; Trump benefitted from the overall environment and his standing as a successful businessman, and I question whether this was about an affinity for the GOP itself. But the work needs to happen immediately, and it starts by not taking these groups for granted and not falling into the same old traps of punching down at those who may have switched their vote in this election (I trust the actual party to do this, fwiw, but the supporter base needs to wake up here)

Edited November 8 by mtutiger

[pfife]

IDK where else to put this, so here is good as anyplace

I'm hoping to keep track of stuff the GOP wants to do that gets blocked by fillibuster in the Senate.   I'm largely of the opinion that because of budget reconciliation, the GOP has exempted a lot of it's top priorities from the fillibuster already.   So I'll be interested to see what dies because of the busta

Speculation here but I think one thing that probably will be blocked by fillibuster is limits on abortion.   Theyll probably find some way around it or will tell the parliamentarian to get bent  

Edited November 8 by pfife

[Tigeraholic1]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Exactly as much as you hate immigrants, education, and democracy.

My stepmother legally immigrated from Columbia 25 years ago. My Brother just married a Latino school teacher from Mexico, she is the best thing that ever happened to my brother and our family adores her. She could not come to the U.S. until last June because even though they were married for a year, they followed the rules until she could legally locate here. My daughter will graduate from college next year as the first member of my family with a bachelor's degree with an early education/ special needs major. I served two combat tours so I know what democracy costs. I am sure none of this passes your purity contest tho.

[LaceyLou]

20 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

A couple of things:

• Latino voters aren't a monolith - not only do they come from different places, but at this point in time in the Latino experience, many of them are pretty far separated from the immigrant experience. We have more second and third generation Latinos, and the things that appeal to recent migrants =/= to those who have assimilated into the American experience.
• Latino voters are more acutely impacted by economics than just about every demographic group

I do think the Democrats have an opportunity to win some of this support back; Trump benefitted from the overall environment and his standing as a successful businessman, and I question whether this was about an affinity for the GOP itself. But the work needs to happen immediately, and it starts by not taking these groups for granted and not falling into the same old traps of punching down at those who may have switched their vote in this election (I trust the actual party to do this, fwiw, but the supporter base needs to wake up here)

Except for the part that most puzzles me, which is his (IMHO false) image of being a successful businessman, I can go along with this. 

FWIW, in my experience Latinos aren't any more sexist than any other group of men. I think you're right about it being the overall environment. 

Democrats must become better about having a message, getting that message out, and countering whatever false information is coming from the Republicans. 

I still think that she ran as good a campaign as she could, considering she had significantly less time to craft it than T did.

[Hongbit]

Interesting viewing on how Oakland County voted by city:

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, pfife said:

IDK where else to put this, so here is good as anyplace

I'm hoping to keep track of stuff the GOP wants to do that gets blocked by fillibuster in the Senate.   I'm largely of the opinion that because of budget reconciliation, the GOP has exempted a lot of it's top priorities from the fillibuster already.   So I'll be interested to see what dies because of the busta

Speculation here but I think one thing that probably will be blocked by fillibuster is limits on abortion.   Theyll probably find some way around it or will tell the parliamentarian to get bent  

I'd be surprised if anything related to abortion got out of the House, tbh....

[Tigeraholic1]

lol chuckle of the day!

 

 

[mtutiger]

51 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

Democrats must become better about having a message, getting that message out, and countering whatever false information is coming from the Republicans. 

Message is important, but I almost feel like it goes beyond that. But real commitments and real listening.

Assuming he holds on against Kari Lake in Arizona (it hasn't been called yet but seems pretty likely), it would also help if Ruben Gallego became a more prominent figure within the party. His background (Male, Second Generation, military service record) is the exact kind of voter this party is struggling with the most.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

My stepmother legally immigrated from Columbia 25 years ago. My Brother just married a Latino school teacher from Mexico, she is the best thing that ever happened to my brother and our family adores her. She could not come to the U.S. until last June because even though they were married for a year, they followed the rules until she could legally locate here. My daughter will graduate from college next year as the first member of my family with a bachelor's degree with an early education/ special needs major. I served two combat tours so I know what democracy costs. I am sure none of this passes your purity contest tho.

I'm uninterested in how you think your resume relates to this exchange, and I stand by my post which, bottom line, was about me and not about you.

Your baseless assertions are outright lies, and everyone can see that because you've done nothing to produce any receipts. All you have produced are personally-insulting accusations flung at me. I don't see why you feel that's necessary, and I'm not sure what your goal is. This forum was explicitly specified to be an area of civil discourse free of personal attacks, and you have continually undermined that here.

 

Edited Friday at 04:54 PM by chasfh