Tigerbomb13 Posted Tuesday at 05:22 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:22 PM Ah, late stage capitalism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted Tuesday at 05:26 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:26 PM 1 minute ago, Tigerbomb13 said: Ah, late stage capitalism Ah, late stage capitulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted Tuesday at 05:34 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:34 PM Uh oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Tuesday at 05:40 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:40 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, 1776 said: In my opinion the Biden administration never gave her any real responsibilities that would allow her to pad her resume. Not only pad her resume, but make her a house hold name. Instead she was about the most invisible VP since Dan Quayle I guess everybody has their own weirdness. Biden certainly seemed totally enthused about her in the end, it was no Ike/Nixon kind of show. So then way did he didn't he see he was torpedoing for VP ship for 3 years? Was he afraid if he made her look good that would have increase pressure on him not to run? I'd have to guess that was it, and if so it turned out to be a pretty terrible miscalculation. Edited Tuesday at 05:41 PM by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted Tuesday at 05:42 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 05:42 PM (edited) A lot of confidence that uprooting a kid from their school because it didnt make sufficient profit is the best option. Seems like thats at least debatable and def not a metaphysical certitude Edited Tuesday at 05:42 PM by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Tuesday at 05:46 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:46 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, 1776 said: Vouchers aren’t a scam. The state of North Carolina’s Constitution promises that every child in NC is to be provided a good education. If the current status quo isn’t working, and that’s up for debate, the General Assembly can approve vouchers that go to the child/family rather than funding the school itself. The money follows the child, not the school. The Democrats in North Carolina oppose any system or plan that doesn’t tie the student to their district school. Like any other state, NC has schools that are not serving the purpose set forth in our constitution. Vouchers are not a scam. I have no philosophical problem with the money following the kids, I just want schools (and Hospitals for that matter, where the problem is just as bad....) that get any public money to be required to be non-profit. No socialization of cost, privatization of revenue. It should become today's mantra like "No taxation without representation" once was. Edited Tuesday at 05:50 PM by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 05:51 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:51 PM (edited) 29 minutes ago, 1776 said: So what do you say to the millions of inner city kids that don’t have a chance in hell of getting a decent education and have zero options of escaping the trap they’re in? Conversely, what do you say to the kids who live in places like I grew up in (rural, 30 miles from the nearest city of significance, school district one of the largest employers in town) where voucher dollars suck money out of the local school systems and subsequently lower the quality for everyone not lucky enough to have the opportunity to get into a charter school? I understand the pros of vouchers, but let's not pretend that their impacts play out as a net plus for everyone in society. Edited Tuesday at 05:52 PM by mtutiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 05:57 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:57 PM (edited) 11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I have no philosophical problem with the money following the kids, I just want schools (and Hospitals for that matter, where the problem is just as bad....) that get any public money to be required to be non-profit. No socialization of cost, privatization of revenue. It should become today's mantra like "No taxation without representation" once was. I've maintained it for a while, but if Democrats were serious about making inroads in rural America, vouchers would be something they should use as a wedge. Though the suburban nature of the party complicates that a bit. Edited Tuesday at 05:58 PM by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Tuesday at 06:01 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:01 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, HighOPS said: One concern with RFK-like health policies broadly applied is - could there be a time when the US military can't effectively fight because of a contagious disease outbreak? I'm more worried that Trump's only competence is in marketing and he'll be capturing people without a plan for their safety. I'm also more worried about mid-level positions at department protecting the environment and food chain being taken over by ignorant political hacks. But, a military unprepared for stupid reasons is something, too. Anti-vax Healthcare Czar RFK Jr. doesn't give two ****s about that and it likely hasn't crossed his mind. In-fact, anti-vax Healthcare Czar RFK Jr. said about that last contagious outbreak, Covid 19, that it was targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. And he said that Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese were immune from it. This shows you where his head was at. That brain worm must have really gotten to him. “I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby and I say to him, better not get them vaccinated.”- Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Edited Tuesday at 06:05 PM by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 06:05 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:05 PM 2024 Kentucky Amendment 2 Vouchers were on the ballot in Kentucky last week.... same ballot as Donald Trump. Result: 65-35% against, losing every county in Kentucky, all but one county a double digit margin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Tuesday at 06:10 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:10 PM 4 minutes ago, mtutiger said: 2024 Kentucky Amendment 2 Vouchers were on the ballot in Kentucky last week.... same ballot as Donald Trump. Result: 65-35% against, losing every county in Kentucky, all but one county a double digit margin. I thought all of America wanted vouchers? If deep red Kentucky doesn't want vouchers than who does exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted Tuesday at 06:18 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:18 PM Lol, Charlie Kirk. Did I mention I wished accounts I blocked on Twitter were blocked here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted Tuesday at 06:23 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:23 PM 2 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Lol, Charlie Kirk. Did I mention I wished accounts I blocked on Twitter were blocked here? So she is lying? You might not like Charlie but Washington is the one speaking the words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted Tuesday at 06:26 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 06:26 PM Imagine watching a trump campaigners video on state run media lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Tuesday at 06:32 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:32 PM 33 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Conversely, what do you say to the kids who live in places like I grew up in (rural, 30 miles from the nearest city of significance, school district one of the largest employers in town) where voucher dollars suck money out of the local school systems and subsequently lower the quality for everyone not lucky enough to have the opportunity to get into a charter school? I understand the pros of vouchers, but let's not pretend that their impacts play out as a net plus for everyone in society. I have a niece who teaches in one of the poorest counties in Virginia (Westmoreland County), the area is fairly similar to Michigan's Thumb region above Bay City. There is one private school about 30 miles away. She has stories to tell about some of their kids and backgrounds that break your heart. What do you tell them? One of the problems is not just funding or underfunding a school system, but making sure parents are also equipped to handle the situations. Many of these folks have no clue on parenting because they were never taught. It takes more than money and the states and Feds have never addressed the problem efficiently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted Tuesday at 06:33 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:33 PM (edited) 47 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I have no philosophical problem with the money following the kids, I just want schools (and Hospitals for that matter, where the problem is just as bad....) that get any public money to be required to be non-profit. No socialization of cost, privatization of revenue. It should become today's mantra like "No taxation without representation" once was. Vouchers are working great in Indiana and growing. We don't have many charter schools here 98% are religious shools most offering PK-12. Edited Tuesday at 06:34 PM by Tigeraholic1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 06:47 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:47 PM 8 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: I have a niece who teaches in one of the poorest counties in Virginia (Westmoreland County), the area is fairly similar to Michigan's Thumb region above Bay City. There is one private school about 30 miles away. She has stories to tell about some of their kids and backgrounds that break your heart. What do you tell them? One of the problems is not just funding or underfunding a school system, but making sure parents are also equipped to handle the situations. Many of these folks have no clue on parenting because they were never taught. It takes more than money and the states and Feds have never addressed the problem efficiently. I am from the Thumb.... it was a good place to grow up, but I'm glad that I grew up when I did. Things are a lot harder for local school districts now than they were 15-20 years ago. School consolidation is another big issue.... some of that may be necessary to a degree just due to declining populations, but it's still a drag on outcomes. Voucher proponents never really address areas like the one I grew up in.... to the extent they have benefits, it tends to go toward people in higher density populated areas at the expense of those in Rural America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 06:49 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:49 PM 15 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Vouchers are working great in Indiana and growing. We don't have many charter schools here 98% are religious shools most offering PK-12. That all sounds great for the voucher recipients.... How about everyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Tuesday at 06:53 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:53 PM (edited) 21 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Vouchers are working great in Indiana and growing. We don't have many charter schools here 98% are religious shools most offering PK-12. 98% of the vouchers go to religious schools. Doesn't that violate the separation of Church and State (one of the foundations the nation was founded on)? Do the churches pay taxes on tuition money? Once again I'm not opposed to private schools, but as a taxpayer whose child left the system 20 plus years ago why should I be underwriting religious indoctrination? And yes you may have an opportunity to practice whatever religion you choose, I have no problem there. Just don't do it at my expense. Edited Tuesday at 06:54 PM by CMRivdogs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Tuesday at 06:59 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:59 PM (edited) 7 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: 98% of the vouchers go to religious schools. Doesn't that violate the separation of Church and State (one of the foundations the nation was founded on)? Do the churches pay taxes on tuition money? Even setting aside the Separation of Church and State issue, if you're in a town that is 65+% LCMS, they have the only parochial school in town and you are Catholic, doesn't that seem like a bit of an issue? Not a hypothetical either, this was my own life experience Edited Tuesday at 07:01 PM by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Tuesday at 07:04 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:04 PM I guess for me the bottom line is I want the portion of my tax money for schools to go to local public schools. I don't want to fund private interests religious or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted Tuesday at 07:04 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:04 PM 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: That all sounds great for the voucher recipients.... How about everyone else? We have public schools for the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Tuesday at 07:05 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:05 PM (edited) 1 minute ago, Tigeraholic1 said: We have public schools for the public. Define public in your world. Full transparency, my grandson goes to a parochial school. His parents are fine with paying tuition (we really don't discuss it). It's their choice, I'm fine with it. I also don't live in their community Edited Tuesday at 07:09 PM by CMRivdogs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted Tuesday at 07:05 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:05 PM 11 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: 98% of the vouchers go to religious schools. Doesn't that violate the separation of Church and State (one of the foundations the nation was founded on)? Do the churches pay taxes on tuition money? Once again I'm not opposed to private schools, but as a taxpayer whose child left the system 20 plus years ago why should I be underwriting religious indoctrination? And yes you may have an opportunity to practice whatever religion you choose, I have no problem there. Just don't do it at my expense. State rights are pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted Tuesday at 07:07 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:07 PM 1 minute ago, Tigeraholic1 said: State rights are pretty cool. Unless it comes to things you don't like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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