2024 Presidential Election thread

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

 

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

And the public is fine with it because at heart they care more about potties than politics.

There's maybe a dint of care about policies when a Democrat is in office.... the focus on the economy and inflation of 2022-2023 is a good example. 

But especially given the impact that inflation had on Biden's term (most likely the largest reason Trump ended up winning) and how Trump's policies that he's proposing would hint at short term inflationary pain for consumers (even his allies, such as Elon Musk, have suggested this), you'd expect a little more discussion on this and less about bathrooms.

That's not an accident though... the culture wars over bathrooms are the modern day equivalent of what Daniel Patrick Moynihan's "boob bait for bubbas" quip.

Edited November 26, 2024 by mtutiger

[The Ronz]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don't know whether it's so much lost from Western socioeconomic thinking as much as it has been overwhelmed by a muscular cultural identity. Socialism, as far as I can tell, is considered the namby-pamby coddling of those trying to pass themselves off as too weak to work when they are in fact too lazy to get up off their asses. Capitalism is seen as God's own ordained economic order of self-reliance, so ensconced in right-wing cultural thinking that even working-class people with barely a dollar to their names will unironically refer to themselves as "capitalists." There's no actual thinking about of the socioeconomic nature of capitalism taking place there.

John Steinbeck said this about that in the 1930's:

"Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: 'After the revolution even we will have more, won't we, dear?' Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property.

"I guess the trouble was that we didn't have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew — at least they claimed to be Communists — couldn't have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves."

The quote has since been distilled to this:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

 

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, The Ronz said:

The quote has since been distilled to this:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

 

Yup - this quote has a lot of different forms but there is a lot of truth in it. When the debates were going on about cutting high marginal rates in the Reagan era, people who were never going to pay those rates were some of the biggest supporters.  On one hand there is a certain value in having a society full of dreamers, because some of them actually manage to create those dreams, which keeps society moving. But there can also be too much of a good thing....

OTOH, this might be something that is fluid right now. It seems the GenX/Millennials/Z have a much less rosy view of American economics than in the past. The problem there may be that they also may not be economically literate enough to vote to get the change they want. I imagine there is isn't much economics taught anywhere in US public schools, too controversial if you try to do any kind of realistic job.

[mtutiger]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yup - this quote has a lot of different forms but there is a lot of truth in it. When the debates were going on about cutting high marginal rates in the Reagan era, people who were never going to pay those rates were some of the biggest supporters.  On one hand there is a certain value in having a society full of dreamers, because some of them actually manage to create those dreams, which keeps society moving. But there can also be too much of a good thing....

OTOH, this might be something that is fluid right now. It seems the GenX/Millennials/Z have a much less rosy view of American economics than in the past. The problem there may be that they also may not be economically literate enough to vote to get the change they want. I imagine there is isn't much economics taught anywhere in US public schools, too controversial if you try to do any kind of realistic job.

To be fair to people living through the 1930s, they did pull the lever for Franklin Roosevelt multiple times - his first two elections (at least) being in large part because of economics. The public voted for, and rewarded, Roosevelt for the New Deal, which is unthinkable in today's day and age... (and hopefully remains so given that Roosevelt was preceded by the Great Depression)

The issue nowadays is that materialism in politics increasingly matters less and less. At least in our public discussions or how candidates position themselves on the issues - all culture war all the time. We've seen that in this very own thread - we've seen lots of discussions about things like restrooms and what bathrooms trans people are using with a lot of avoidance of the impact that many of the positions this new administration could have in terms of economics, and how it could impact all of us.

Not denying that there isn't struggle out there - clearly there is.... but in terms of having our needs satiated, by any objective measure, we are largely much better off than we were back then. And we cast ballots like we are too.

Edited November 26, 2024 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Trump used to be a Democrat. He didn't run as a Democrat because he knew he wouldn't win. 

I think he came by his Republican decision more honestly: he understood they already think like him.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

To be fair to people living through the 1930s, they did pull the lever for Franklin Roosevelt multiple times - his first two elections (at least) being in large part because of economics. The public voted for, and rewarded, Roosevelt for the New Deal, which is unthinkable in today's day and age... (and hopefully remains so given that Roosevelt was preceded by the Great Depression)

Which is why it is unthinkable. It may not be unthinkable in four to eight years after Trump tariffs have completely wiped out not only what’s left of the middle class, but large swaths of the lower middle class.

[chasfh]

Of course, there could be another motive behind the tariffs: Trump is looking for direct payoffs from these countries.

Can’t happen? Why not?

[oblong]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Of course, there could be another motive behind the tariffs: Trump is looking for direct payoffs from these countries.

Can’t happen? Why not?

I'd say more likely is he backs off but claims they did something that he made them do but of course nobody will call him on it so they will just say "See, look how tough he is."

 

[chasfh]

I guess he wasn't paying enough tribute to the boss.

 

[smr-nj]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I guess he wasn't paying enough tribute to the boss.

 

The transition team is not stepping away from him.  
 

Who is surprised?  *crickets*
 

A den of thieves.

[romad1]

19 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

The transition team is not stepping away from him.  
 

Who is surprised?  *crickets*
 

A den of thieves.

Epsteyn is their liaison to Russian organized crime and the Russian intelligence services.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Epsteyn is their liaison to Russian organized crime and the Russian intelligence services.

The criming is so deep with this bunch that my brain didn’t even bother to remember this part of it. 

Edited November 26, 2024 by chasfh

[romad1]

Susan Wiles is thinking she's going to go up against the Russian side of Trump world on behalf of Elon?   Or is all this just garble from the farrago that is that place? 

[Tigeraholic1]

Plus 5 million “alleged” former Biden voters decided to stay home this election cycle, amazing.

 

[CMRivdogs]

[CMRivdogs]

Quote

Looks like Democrats will end up ~7500 votes short of winning the House majority across three districts. That's the difference between having the power of the purse, subpoenas etc — or not — in a nation of 330+ million.

https://bsky.app/profile/steventdennis.bsky.social/post/3lbwyr5yuqm2d

[Tigeraholic1]

2 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

[Tigeraholic1]

2 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

https://bsky.app/profile/steventdennis.bsky.social/post/3lbwyr5yuqm2d

Sucks to suck I guess.... Better luck in four years?

[CMRivdogs]

13 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

[oblong]

I wonder how those who brag about their religious and Christian views and their support of DJT feel about him being married to a certified whore. Are they smart enough to recognize the contradiction and hypocrisy?  I would certainly feel like a dupe espousing those views. 

[CMRivdogs]

About those tariffs...

Remember when "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" tried to teach us about tariffs and no one was paying attention

 

[romad1]

Gonna be 10% for the chicoms but 25% for our neighbors.  Almost like he’s an unserious ass who has a surfeit of dumb opinions.  Except, he’s got a boner like a zit faced teen for dictatorship.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Associated Press: Jury finds Trump liable for sexual abuse, awards accuser $5M

E. Jean Carroll did show you and she was awarded $5 million because of Trump's sexual abuse.