mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 24 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Jeez. That’s a bitter pill to digest, albeit a fair assessment of the current state of affairs. It saddens and depresses me, also, but I don’t feel like I want to throw up my hands and say “oh, well, it was a good run”. If not for myself, I think I need to keep fighting back for the generations behind me. I don’t want them to live in the kind of society that MAGA mindsets will doom them to. We have to - Keep fighting. We cannot go gently into that dark night. Not if you love your family and you know better than to accept this as normal. No doubt, just from my perspective, my kids deserve so much more than what that movement is offering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 59 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Jeez. That’s a bitter pill to digest, albeit a fair assessment of the current state of affairs. It saddens and depresses me, also, but I don’t feel like I want to throw up my hands and say “oh, well, it was a good run”. If not for myself, I think I need to keep fighting back for the generations behind me. I don’t want them to live in the kind of society that MAGA mindsets will doom them to. We have to - Keep fighting. We cannot go gently into that dark night. Not if you love your family and you know better than to accept this as normal. Ann Coulter was right.... our only hope is to see what happens when Trump dies. I used to enjoy politics like I enjoyed sports. I could detach from my own views and get into the spirit of who was beating who, what was a good point made, what is their strategy, etc. Analysis. That's all gone now. There is no shame by our politicians. There are no electoral penalties anymore. It all comes down to winning for your side and hurting the oppositon and certain groups. I'm not both sidesing this either. Democrats by and large want to govern. Republicans do not and don't care if you tell them that. They know that 47% of the voters will still vote for them and they have a gerrymandered and EC guaranteed shot at running every branch of government and plenty of states to prevent Constitutional Amendments they don't want. We'll never ever see another Constitutional Amendment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Biden has been the most successful president of my lifetime and the most progressive since Lyndon Johnson and we are going to screw this up over the dumbest of ****. Any other option would be worse than Biden but at least their younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 5 minutes ago, oblong said: That's all gone now. There is no shame by our politicians. There are no electoral penalties anymore. It all comes down to winning for your side and hurting the oppositon and certain groups. I'm not bold sidesing this either. Democrats by and large want to govern. Republicans do not and don't care if you tell them that. This past week has really gone a long way to shatter my view of where we are at collectively. Setting the Biden report aside, prior to that, the big story was the negotiation on the immigration bill, a negotiation that was done at the request of the current Speaker and, once finished, was torpedoed for *explicitly* political purposes. Like, Trump and others literally signaling that they did not want to see that through because it would be bad politics in an election year. What is the point of governing if 1/3rd of our government just collectively sits on their hands once every four years? Like, are we just paying these guys $174K/year to be high priced rodeo clowns during election years? I really don't know how you fix that.... especially if, as you suggest elsewhere in your post, 47% of the country are just OK with that or are entertained by that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Anybody who tries to equivalence Biden and Trump's classified document issues need to go read Trump's indictment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 regarding the soft support of Harris... that's conventional wisdom from the pundits. But is it true? I'm trying to determine who the voter is that's fine with Biden but not with Harris and will accept another 4 years of Trump over her. Who are these people? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, oblong said: regarding the soft support of Harris... that's conventional wisdom from the pundits. But is it true? I'm trying to determine who the voter is that's fine with Biden but not with Harris and will accept another 4 years of Trump over her. Who are these people? It's a great question... I think she's gotten dragged in the media *a lot*, but I couldn't tell you how she's different from any other Vice President who has seen less scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I think there are very few Biden voters who would switch to Trump if Harris got the nomination. There might be some right leaning independents who dislike Trump who would avoid her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Biden has been the most successful president of my lifetime and the most progressive since Lyndon Johnson and we are going to screw this up over the dumbest of ****. Any other option would be worse than Biden but at least their younger. Having a president who has a difficult time speaking and communicating is not "dumb ****". That is a very important part of a President's job. Then again, Trump doesn't speak well either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 3 hours ago, Edman85 said: Anybody who tries to equivalence Biden and Trump's classified document issues need to go read Trump's indictment. I'm not trying to say Biden is as bad as Trump on this, but anyone that defends Biden on this needs to go and read this report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Who is defending him? Is the prosecutor defending him by not suggesting charges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: I'm not trying to say Biden is as bad as Trump on this, but anyone that defends Biden on this needs to go and read this report. I'm taking it as since he is NOT being charged, by a political hack 100% against him... That therefore I do NOT need to defend him. Fait accompli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Ewsieg would have us believe otherwise. Nefarious intent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, GoBlue23 said: Did you by chance read just the first page or so? If you had, I can understand why you would think the two cases were similar. Thing is, once you get to page 3, you see things like this............ Step 1 - Deflection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 27 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Step 1 - Deflection This post is nothing but pure trolling. MAGA does a lot of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Well Andy Levin is endorsing voting uncommitted in the primary. We really are going to **** this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Biden was totally exonerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 16 hours ago, oblong said: Who is defending him? Is the prosecutor defending him by not suggesting charges? This thread has been defending him and is so quick to compare to Trump in order compare it against something worse. Several seem to believe it's a complete exoneration. The report indicates that he knowingly had classified information outside of a secure location and didn't turn it in until someone realized they needed to come clean and turn it in after he was president again. That is illegal. Based on this forum, it potentially put American lives at risk, both here and abroad. If you notice, it looks like the weekend democratic talking heads are looking to spin it that he wanted to carefully and correctly document his *correct* stance on Afghanistan so it would be properly documented. Not that he wanted to make money on a book. Some defenders below..... On 2/8/2024 at 4:24 PM, GoBlue23 said: The way this report is written, it's as if it was done intentionally. Don't reports like this usually use statements like "could not recall" or "did not remember"? .....Call the report into question On 2/8/2024 at 4:31 PM, Motown Bombers said: I'm old enough to remember (no pun intended) when Ivanka who is half Biden's age could not remember a thing in her New York trial. .....Redirect to Trump On 2/8/2024 at 4:38 PM, mtutiger said: All valid questions, and to be honest, there's context here (such as the interview being immediately after the October 7 attacks) that may be factor as well. ....well he had a lot going on that day On 2/8/2024 at 8:29 PM, oblong said: Which could be related to a stutter and verbal tic. Not a memory. This may be a legitimate defense, that said I don't have any problem with any republican that feels he blames things on this too much. I don't remember him having trouble talking with he was VP and he does have a history of lying about his past (he was at ground zero, he was at that philly synogue the day of the shooting, he got arrested trying to meet Nelson Mandela, he graduated top half of his class (what a weird flex). All that said, a stutter can get worse with age. On 2/8/2024 at 11:24 PM, pfife said: sorry your expectation is wrong. If they don't charge they're supposed to STFU. He didn't charge. He shoulda STFU ....claim that reports aren't supposed to be public without any knowledge on the subject in order to throw the evidence out of the case. On 2/9/2024 at 9:57 AM, GoBlue23 said: Trump stole documents, lied about having them, coerced other to lie about having them, returned some and then lied some more, eventually having to be raided to get the rest of them back. Biden reported the documents, allowed his properties to be searched and cooperated with the investigation at every step. As for your claim that it is proven that Biden shared classified information with the writer of his books, go ahead and explain to me why it is that a review of those books showed that there was no classified information contained within? Trying to equate the Trump and Biden situations is absolutely crazy and Hur basically says the same in his report. ....again....but Trump On 2/9/2024 at 10:02 AM, Tiger337 said: LOL, I don't know what Biden was going to do with the documents, but come on, you know Trump was going to make or had already made money off them. That's his whole life. ....again...but Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 18 minutes ago, ewsieg said: ....again...but Trump I don't especiallycare about Biden or the Democrats one way or the other. My main function in this forum is to vent about how uniquely horrible Trump is. I was laughing at your post not because of anything you said about Biden, but because you suggested that Trump did not take the documents for his persnal gain. How is that even possible with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) I never said anything about whether the report should be public so that part of your story sucked I was talking about what was included in the content of the report but go off with whatever makes your story crappier Edited February 10 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Esweig putting in the work defending personal attacks on an innocent person in a legal document, cheers on the noble cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 17 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: Next we'll get an explanation that it's really not that crazy to think that the 2020 election might have been rigged. My response to that has always been that if elections were easy to rig, Trump would have rigged it. That's a fact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 It's interesting that the same law that compelled Mueller to not lodge personal attacks against the person he was investigating and not charging, *did* compel personal attacks against the person this jabroni was investigating and not charging The fact is, if it were a level playing field, the conversation starts and ends at the same DOJ memo regarding indicting a sitting president that Mueller cited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, ewsieg said: ....well he had a lot going on that day Was meant to be an explanation, not a defense. But I think you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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