casimir Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 15 hours ago, romad1 said: Biden is too old. But Trump is too senile. And that's basically what we have to pick from for the next presidential term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, pfife said: I'm not wrong and you calling me wrong is evidence that I'm not wrong You initially claimed that Hur should STFU. Once presented with evidence that it was released at the direction of the DOJ it switched to "well, I meant how it was presented by Hur was wrong". You can argue the wording all you want, but giving the reasons not to recommend indicting someone, after showing that you know they broke the law, is absolutely a requirement by a prosecutor in this type of report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ewsieg said: You initially claimed that Hur should STFU. Once presented with evidence that it was released at the direction of the DOJ it switched to "well, I meant how it was presented by Hur was wrong". You can argue the wording all you want, but giving the reasons not to recommend indicting someone, after showing that you know they broke the law, is absolutely a requirement by a prosecutor in this type of report. I said it should not be presented. Just like Mueller and at least 2 other SCs appointed under the same law did not Cool story though Eric Carle Edited February 12 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 you seem very inspired about defending personal attacks on an innocent man. Pants fitting tight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Everyone except Carle knows that the DOJ isn't supposed to lodge personal attacks. They either charge or they stfu. Unless Carle doesn't like the person being attacked then the personal attacks are gods work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) If Mr. Hur thought Biden was too sympathetic of a figure b/c of his age and memory to secure a guilty conviction beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a jury, what actually means in legal terms is that Mr. Hur did not secure the evidence needed to establish Biden's Mens Rea beyond a reasonable doubt. *THAT* is what he puts into the report. Of course, it's all fantasy anyways. Because there's a DOJ memo that precludes the charging of the sitting president, and charging would need to occur before the task of establishing the mens rea, so the DOJ memo is the beginning and end of it. As it was with Mueller. Except for when E hates the innocent person why speculate on what a jury would feel about President Joe Biden if the DOJ isn't allowed to charge President Joe Biden with a crime that would necessitate convening a jury Edited February 12 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I saw a tweet that suggested Hur purposefully wrote a report that didn't conform to DOJ guidelines.... the idea being he was baiting Garland to change it. Then that would be the scandal and the story, that Garland is "interfering". They would muddle up the details, as they always do. Talking points were already made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Let’s lay it out in mob terminology: It was a hit job. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) 9 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Let’s lay it out in mob terminology: It was a hit job. It was the only polish hur had for his turd. Couldn't imagine choosing to come here and publicly defend it Edited February 12 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, oblong said: Later on Quayle was asked by Larry King if he could respond now, what would he say? "Yeah and my wife is glad I am not Jack Kennedy" Quayle wasn't wrong. JFK had a very thin legislative and governing resume in 1960. Much of his congressional career was spent sick in the hospital. Once he decided to run for POTUS he realized he needed a wife, so he found a suitable one in pedigree in Jackie. Then he got himself on some good commitees. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but the older I get, the more creeped out I get by the obsession our country has over that family in general. RFK Jr. sort of plays into it, but don't forget the role that JFK Jr. has in QAnon as well. Just kinda feels creepy and exploitative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I don't think there is an obsession with the Kennedy's. The only ones obsessed seem to be conservatives. Since Ted died, I really haven't heard anything about them until conservatives trotted out junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I like how conservatives were rooting for a team from San Francisco that Colin Kapernick played for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I don't think there is an obsession with the Kennedy's. The only ones obsessed seem to be conservatives. Since Ted died, I really haven't heard anything about them until conservatives trotted out junior. That's fair. The commercial strikes me as the kind of thing that will be hailed as savvy by the people you would expect to hail it as savvy, but when you really sit and think about, just reinforces that RFK Jr. really has no qualifications, nor any reason for anybody to care about him or what he thinks, beyond his last name. Not to mention that the money spent on the ad would have been much better allocated toward gathering signatures to actually get on the ballot.... which isn't even a guarantee at this point for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The ad was put out by a PAC, so allegedly not him, (riiiiight) he apologized to his family for it on twitter. Of course his tweet of the ad is still up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 13 minutes ago, mtutiger said: That's fair. The commercial strikes me as the kind of thing that will be hailed as savvy by the people you would expect to hail it as savvy, but when you really sit and think about, just reinforces that RFK Jr. really has no qualifications, nor any reason for anybody to care about him or what he thinks, beyond his last name. Not to mention that the money spent on the ad would have been much better allocated toward gathering signatures to actually get on the ballot.... which isn't even a guarantee at this point for him. My thought is that conservatives thought Democrats would flock to junior because he is a Kennedy. They think Democrats are as cultish as they are. My mother is a huge supporter of the Kennedy family. She is a 72 year old boomer. She was in grade school when John was assassinated. She was an even bigger supporter of Bobby. She liked Jackie and the kids. She would totally vote for Caroline if she ran for president. She hates Junior and is mad what he's doing to the Kenndy name. Even one of the few boomers left who are still obsessed with the Kenndy family can't stand Junior. She keeps asking what's wrong with him and says Bobby is probably spinning in his grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: My thought is that conservatives thought Democrats would flock to junior because he is a Kennedy. They think Democrats are as cultish as they are. My mother is a huge supporter of the Kennedy family. She is a 72 year old boomer. She was in grade school when John was assassinated. She was an even bigger supporter of Bobby. She liked Jackie and the kids. She would totally vote for Caroline if she ran for president. She hates Junior and is mad what he's doing to the Kenndy name. Even one of the few boomers left who are still obsessed with the Kenndy family can't stand Junior. She keeps asking what's wrong with him and says Bobby is probably spinning in his grave. Like Reagan is spinning in his grave over Trump's obedience to Putin. I think metaphorically we could power a couple aircraft carriers on the energy from the spinning motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, smr-nj said: Let’s lay it out in mob terminology: It was a hit job. If Hur really is an ultra MAGA, and he believes Biden broke the law, why wouldn't he just recommend charges and force Garland to cover it up, take the political heat that he will not follow through on the recommendation, or say you think he should be charged (but can't as a sitting president)? Instead he's not going to charge him, which allows all of his followers to say he's exonerated and for independents it allows the reinforcement that you can choose between a man with multiple indictments against him or zero. Instead, Hur's big mastermind plot it to say he doesn't recommend charges and goes further saying that would hold up even if he was allowed to charge him (sitting president), but figures a "slanderous" line like 'sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory' will be all that is needed to destroy his presidency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, ewsieg said: If Hur really is an ultra MAGA, and he believes Biden broke the law, why wouldn't he just recommend charges and force Garland to cover it up, take the political heat that he will not follow through on the recommendation, or say you think he should be charged (but can't as a sitting president)? Instead he's not going to charge him, which allows all of his followers to say he's exonerated and for independents it allows the reinforcement that you can choose between a man with multiple indictments against him or zero. Instead, Hur's big mastermind plot it to say he doesn't recommend charges and goes further saying that would hold up even if he was allowed to charge him (sitting president), but figures a "slanderous" line like 'sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory' will be all that is needed to destroy his presidency? I am not following this case very closely, but the answer seems obvious to me. The MAGAs probably feel as if they have more to gain politically from Biden being viewed as too old and weak than it is for him to be charged with a crime. In MAGA world, being seen as weak is far worse than being a criminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 56 minutes ago, romad1 said: Like Reagan is spinning in his grave over Trump's obedience to Putin. I think metaphorically we could power a couple aircraft carriers on the energy from the spinning motion. Reagan would blister the **** out of Trump. He would undress him with the power of his words... brutally. He would blister MAGA as Treasonous scum that should be deported to Siberia. He would crush them. And he would crush Trump. The one person who would actually get them to be red-faced about all this ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 19 minutes ago, ewsieg said: ... Hur's big mastermind plot it to say he doesn't recommend charges and goes further saying that would hold up even if he was allowed to charge him (sitting president), but figures a "slanderous" line like 'sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory' will be all that is needed to destroy his presidency... You FINALLY figured it OUT!!! GOOD JOB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ewsieg said: If Hur really is an ultra MAGA, and he believes Biden broke the law, why wouldn't he just recommend charges and force Garland to cover it up, take the political heat that he will not follow through on the recommendation, or say you think he should be charged (but can't as a sitting president)? Instead he's not going to charge him, which allows all of his followers to say he's exonerated and for independents it allows the reinforcement that you can choose between a man with multiple indictments against him or zero. Instead, Hur's big mastermind plot it to say he doesn't recommend charges and goes further saying that would hold up even if he was allowed to charge him (sitting president), but figures a "slanderous" line like 'sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory' will be all that is needed to destroy his presidency? There's a DOJ memo prohibiting the indictment of the sitting president. Hur works for the DOJ. He should not be pontificating about a jury having sympathy for Biden when the rules disallow charging the president let alone convening a jury. Edited February 12 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Reagan would blister the **** out of Trump. He would undress him with the power of his words... brutally. He would blister MAGA as Treasonous scum that should be deported to Siberia. He would crush them. And he would crush Trump. The one person who would actually get them to be red-faced about all this ****. That WH was filled with combat vets. HW Bush was shot down fighting the Japanese, Don Regan fought on Guadalcanal and Okinawa, Vernon Walters was a combat liaison with the Brazilian expeditionary force in Italy. It was a generation that knew the cost of appeasement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 This generation apparently does not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 8 minutes ago, pfife said: There's a DOJ memo prohibiting the indictment of the sitting president. Hur works for the DOJ. He should not be pontificating about a jury having sympathy for Biden when the rules disallow charging the president let alone convening a jury. So you're saying he should have left that out, which means if he was ethical and not a MAGA he would have simply said "President Biden illegally possessed and shared classified information with an unauthorized source, no charges can be filed as he's a sitting president, the end." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am not following this case very closely, but the answer seems obvious to me. The MAGAs probably feel as if they have more to gain politically from Biden being viewed as too old and weak than it is for him to be charged with a crime. In MAGA world, being seen as weak is far worse than being a criminal. In Trumps view, you're probably right, but if the plan is to try and get Trump to win, I'd think the very last thing you'd want to bring up is age and mental ability and get people thinking about that as he's not going to fair too well either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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