2022 NBA Summer League

[Deleterious]

I think the Pistons will regret not taking Hardy at 36.

[Deleterious]

If Banchero can be just average on defense he is going to be a nice player.

[Deleterious]

 

[Deleterious]

I think Duren is going to get benched a lot.  He spent the entire time walking back on defense telling a teammate he wanted the lob and not a bounce pass.  Meanwhile his man beat him down the court for an open dunk.

[Deleterious]

Oh lord.

 

[RandyMarsh]

Ivey off to the locker room with a right ankle injury. He landed on the opponents foot on a 3 point attempt that he was fouled on, hope it's nothing serious. Ivey was able to walk off under his own power and even sink all 3 FT attempts before exiting so hopefully that's a sign it isn't too severe.  BTW he dominated the 5 minutes he was out there, looked like the best player on the court for sure and scored 11 points in those 5 minutes in only 2 shots!

[Deleterious]

Edwards said he wouldn't be shocked if Killian is done with summer league.  I wonder if Stewart plays much after this one.

[1984Echoes]

So we've put a team together of an 18 year old Steve Kemp, 20 year old Dwayne Wade, and 20 year old Magic Johnson...

That's an interesting mix...

[Deleterious]

Joe D!

Come on, Tom!  Fix things with Joe.

[Deleterious]

2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

So we've put a team together of an 18 year old Steve Kemp, 20 year old Dwayne Wade, and 20 year old Magic Johnson...

That's an interesting mix...

Kemp cant hit the curve.

[1984Echoes]

Shawn Kemp!

Dunno why Steve popped up in my head...

Except I compared Higginson to him in the Higginson thread...

[1984Echoes]

I like that Livers can also handle and dish and not just be a spot up shooter...

[Hart]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

I like that Livers can also handle and dish and not just be a spot up shooter...

He never had good handles at Michigan.  I wouldn't expect much there.  He is a better athlete than given credit for there and can help from the weak side more than people realize. 

I expect him to be the primary backup to Bagley and depending on how things go with Bagley, he may see his minutes increase during the season if we need more shooting.  

[Hart]

I just went to youtube to watch Ivey's limited highlights before he got injured.  Nice to see him finish with the left hand.  I don't remember him doing that much at Purdue.  

His game really fits the NBA, at least the regular season NBA.  I expect he will garner a lot of hype this year.  But I also think his ultimate value will be determined by how committed he is to being an elite defender and can he be an impact guy in the playoffs when defenses play you tougher.  At Purdue and in Summer League, he expends a ton of energy on offense.  That is fine for now.  But come regular season, I really want to see him spend a lot of that energy on defense.  

[Betrayer]

It was sad to see Ivey's night cut short by that injury, but I'm glad it doesn't look serious. He was absolutely brilliant in those 5 minutes. Looked great in the second half of game 1 as well after some rookie mistakes in the 1st half. He adjusted quickly after those mistakes and if that's a sign of things to come, then this is going to be a fun year.

I really hope Casey starts Ivey and realizes that he should leave one of Cade and Ivey on the court at all times...but it's Casey so I'm sure he'll start Burks and run 5 in and 5 out like he's playing XBox lineups again this year.

Stew looks like he might be able to shoot the 3 at a decent clip, but there's more to playing PF than just that. His handle and passing have a long way to go to be a PF. He also sags off of his assignment because he's still drawn to the paint on defense. He's got a lot to learn to be the Grant Williams or Al Horford type that Casey/Weaver have been comparing him to.

That said, it was fun watching Duren and Stew make it crazy difficult for the Wizards in the paint for a long stretch - '04 flashbacks. In the end, I think Stew is a top tier bench big man on a good team, which is great value at pick #16, although I'm sure they'll continue to start him until Duren develops or they pickup someone good enough to supplant him in the lineup.

Duren looks like a beast...and then looks lost...and back and forth. He's young and you can tell. My guess is he's going to get spot minutes for the first half of the season while he figures things out and then get a more consistent 12-15 minutes per game from All-Star break onward. The raw talent is there, but he's got a lot to learn about positioning on offense and defense.

Too bad they shut Killian down. He needs the reps. Played ok, but still looked passive in that first game when he should be dominating this level of competition. At the end of the day, it's all about that catch and shoot three. If he can hit that with consistency and continue to be a plus playmaker and defender, then you've got a really solid bench PG.

I'm guessing they'll shut down Stew for the next game. Hopefully they still play Duren though, because there's nobody else on the roster left to care about after that.

 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Betrayer said:

It was sad to see Ivey's night cut short by that injury, but I'm glad it doesn't look serious. He was absolutely brilliant in those 5 minutes. Looked great in the second half of game 1 as well after some rookie mistakes in the 1st half. He adjusted quickly after those mistakes and if that's a sign of things to come, then this is going to be a fun year.

I really hope Casey starts Ivey and realizes that he should leave one of Cade and Ivey on the court at all times...but it's Casey so I'm sure he'll start Burks and run 5 in and 5 out like he's playing XBox lineups again this year.

Stew looks like he might be able to shoot the 3 at a decent clip, but there's more to playing PF than just that. His handle and passing have a long way to go to be a PF. He also sags off of his assignment because he's still drawn to the paint on defense. He's got a lot to learn to be the Grant Williams or Al Horford type that Casey/Weaver have been comparing him to.

That said, it was fun watching Duren and Stew make it crazy difficult for the Wizards in the paint for a long stretch - '04 flashbacks. In the end, I think Stew is a top tier bench big man on a good team, which is great value at pick #16, although I'm sure they'll continue to start him until Duren develops or they pickup someone good enough to supplant him in the lineup.

Duren looks like a beast...and then looks lost...and back and forth. He's young and you can tell. My guess is he's going to get spot minutes for the first half of the season while he figures things out and then get a more consistent 12-15 minutes per game from All-Star break onward. The raw talent is there, but he's got a lot to learn about positioning on offense and defense.

Too bad they shut Killian down. He needs the reps. Played ok, but still looked passive in that first game when he should be dominating this level of competition. At the end of the day, it's all about that catch and shoot three. If he can hit that with consistency and continue to be a plus playmaker and defender, then you've got a really solid bench PG.

I'm guessing they'll shut down Stew for the next game. Hopefully they still play Duren though, because there's nobody else on the roster left to care about after that.

 

Throw out the Ivey injury (which doesn’t sound serious, so that’s fortunate), and this is an uplifting post to read.

I kind of agree that Duren being brought along slowly might be most beneficial for all.  At the same time, it’s going to be difficult to watch this season, particularly early on, and see him not getting minutes (if indeed that is the plan).

I suppose we might need to expect that a little bit for Ivey as well.  He’s not as raw as Duren, but he’ll still need to get acclimated to a longer season.  Maybe that means missing some side of back-to-backs rather than short nights, I don’t know.

Damn, isn’t this great?  I think there’s legitimate reason to be optimistic as a Piston fan.  There’s still quite a path to travel yet, but it seems so much better than the stumbling in place that we’ve seen for years and years.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Betrayer said:

... in the end, I think Stew is a top tier bench big man on a good team, which is great value at pick #16, although I'm sure they'll continue to start him until Duren develops or they pickup someone good enough to supplant him in the lineup...

Pure truth.

Love the guy... love the energy and defense and the emerging range...

But he really needs to be coming off the bench.

But...

1 hour ago, Betrayer said:

... Duren looks like a beast...and then looks lost...and back and forth. He's young and you can tell. My guess is he's going to get spot minutes for the first half of the season while he figures things out and then get a more consistent 12-15 minutes per game from All-Star break onward. The raw talent is there, but he's got a lot to learn about positioning on offense and defense...

Who else can start at PF once Duren is ready to start at Center?

It needs to be someone who can hit that 3-pointer, plus add more positives than negatives in other areas, to the team, as a starter...

Is it Stew, with his defense and potential range? Bagley would have to develop some range, which he currently doesn't have. And Livers has the range, and he has the handle and passing that Stew doesn't, but does he play enough defense (to suit Casey) if he were at the PF position?

[Betrayer]

The front court is an issue with the roster as it's currently constructed because we have 5 Centers and no true PFs.

Stew, Bagley, and Duren are three young big men whose natural position should be Center. They're all signed long term and they all need minutes to develop. I didn't mind the Bagley signing on paper, but once we already had Stew and Duren, adding another young Center created an odd roster situation, especially since we also have Olynyk and Noel.

Olynyk is well within his playing years and the only big who can shoot (so far). Then you have Noel, who isn't ready to hang up the sneakers and should get minutes as well.

All of these guys are Centers. Yea, you can put some of them in at PF (and we will), but none of them are PFs in today's game. They either can't shoot, can't dribble, or can't defend the perimeter well enough to be PFs.

As for PFs, honestly the best PF on this team is Bey in my opinion. Loved the stretch of games he played at that position last year. He's strong enough to guard that position, rebounds well, and stretches the floor on offense. I'd love to see Casey start him at that spot (Cade, Ivey, Burks, Bey, and one of the Centers). However, if you do that, now you have even less minutes to distribute to the 3 young developing Centers and the 2 vets. Essentially 2 or 3 of those 5 Centers would get zero playing time. Even though I think it's our best lineup, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

So, the more likely outcome is that they try to run Stew at the PF for a while and see if it can work. Can he guard the perimeter full time? Can he hit the three with consistency? Can he handle the more advanced passing and handling skills that are required at that spot? By the time Casey figures that out, it will be the All Star break and maybe KO or Noel get moved, we'll know more about Duren, and so on.

[NYLion]

22 hours ago, Hart said:

He never had good handles at Michigan.  I wouldn't expect much there.  He is a better athlete than given credit for there and can help from the weak side more than people realize. 

I expect him to be the primary backup to Bagley and depending on how things go with Bagley, he may see his minutes increase during the season if we need more shooting.  

I think Livers potential as a high end 3 and D guy is underrated. He's one of those guys who is always in the right spot, making the right play and can shoot the 3 at a high level. He's also athletic enough to defend the more athletic 3's or even 4's reasonably well. He could be our version of Mikail Bridges.

[1984Echoes]

22 hours ago, Hart said:

He never had good handles at Michigan.  I wouldn't expect much there.  He is a better athlete than given credit for there and can help from the weak side more than people realize. 

I expect him to be the primary backup to Bagley and depending on how things go with Bagley, he may see his minutes increase during the season if we need more shooting.  

Also...

As I was watching him...

I'm not saying that he can dribble circles around guards or anything like that...

But he looked competent with the ball. With a couple of dribbles to get himself into an open spot. So, he can actually create for himself, at least as a spot-up shooter; at least it seemed that way to me. 

That's enough of a handle to get him to where he needs to go. He doesn't strike me as someone who's going to out-dribble and out-speed/maneuver himself from the perimeter to a lay-up or a dunk... But I don't think that's what we need from him. We need good defense, someone who can pass competently if he's covered, can hit 3's, or as a spot-up shooter from most anywhere on the court (including mid-range), and lastly, if he can free himself up with a dribble or two, without losing the ball, and create an open look for himself and make that shot... It's something we desperately need as far as I'm concerned.

I want him as the starter at PF... if he matches those expectations. Are he and Bey interchangeable and it doesn't matter who is the SF versus PF? Something that crossed my mind.

He beats Stew on every one of those, except maybe defense. I mean Stew is going to beat everyone on energy and hustle... and he's extending his range... but he doesn't handle the ball well at all. And is definitely not the shooter that Livers is.

Just my 2 cents.

[Hart]

4 hours ago, Betrayer said:

The front court is an issue with the roster as it's currently constructed because we have 5 Centers and no true PFs.

Stew, Bagley, and Duren are three young big men whose natural position should be Center. They're all signed long term and they all need minutes to develop. I didn't mind the Bagley signing on paper, but once we already had Stew and Duren, adding another young Center created an odd roster situation, especially since we also have Olynyk and Noel.

Olynyk is well within his playing years and the only big who can shoot (so far). Then you have Noel, who isn't ready to hang up the sneakers and should get minutes as well.

All of these guys are Centers. Yea, you can put some of them in at PF (and we will), but none of them are PFs in today's game. They either can't shoot, can't dribble, or can't defend the perimeter well enough to be PFs.

As for PFs, honestly the best PF on this team is Bey in my opinion. Loved the stretch of games he played at that position last year. He's strong enough to guard that position, rebounds well, and stretches the floor on offense. I'd love to see Casey start him at that spot (Cade, Ivey, Burks, Bey, and one of the Centers). However, if you do that, now you have even less minutes to distribute to the 3 young developing Centers and the 2 vets. Essentially 2 or 3 of those 5 Centers would get zero playing time. Even though I think it's our best lineup, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

So, the more likely outcome is that they try to run Stew at the PF for a while and see if it can work. Can he guard the perimeter full time? Can he hit the three with consistency? Can he handle the more advanced passing and handling skills that are required at that spot? By the time Casey figures that out, it will be the All Star break and maybe KO or Noel get moved, we'll know more about Duren, and so on.

I agree that roster construction in the front court is poor.  While I prefer Duren to Grant long term, it would have been nice to have Grant with the current roster.  

[Hart]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Also...

As I was watching him...

I'm not saying that he can dribble circles around guards or anything like that...

But he looked competent with the ball. With a couple of dribbles to get himself into an open spot. So, he can actually create for himself, at least as a spot-up shooter; at least it seemed that way to me. 

That's enough of a handle to get him to where he needs to go. He doesn't strike me as someone who's going to out-dribble and out-speed/maneuver himself from the perimeter to a lay-up or a dunk... But I don't think that's what we need from him. We need good defense, someone who can pass competently if he's covered, can hit 3's, or as a spot-up shooter from most anywhere on the court (including mid-range), and lastly, if he can free himself up with a dribble or two, without losing the ball, and create an open look for himself and make that shot... It's something we desperately need as far as I'm concerned.

I want him as the starter at PF... if he matches those expectations. Are he and Bey interchangeable and it doesn't matter who is the SF versus PF? Something that crossed my mind.

He beats Stew on every one of those, except maybe defense. I mean Stew is going to beat everyone on energy and hustle... and he's extending his range... but he doesn't handle the ball well at all. And is definitely not the shooter that Livers is.

Just my 2 cents.

Are the Pistons saying Stewart is going to be a power forward this year?  That's a mistake.  

[1984Echoes]

7 minutes ago, Hart said:

Are the Pistons saying Stewart is going to be a power forward this year?  That's a mistake.  

I think Duren, Noel, and Olynyk are going to sort of push him over there.

Maybe not.. but out of those 3, Stew, Bagley, Bey & Livers...

Who do you think is going to start & backup at SF? Who is going to start and backup at PF? And who is going to start and backup at Center? 

I think due to roster construction... A couple guys are going to be round-pegged into PF, whether they like it or not, whether they actually fit in there, or not..

[1984Echoes]

Also... PS: I think they are going to try and push as much 3 & D at the PF position as they possible can, with less "all-around" emphasis at Center... meaning good D but no O is ok at the C-position (Noel), good O but not much D (Olynyk), and "could be awesome at both but is young and has a lot of learning to do" (Duren, once he earns some minutes...).

Maybe you could switch Olynyk to PF and Stew to Center.

The tandems will be difficult (Noel & Stew together is terrible O; Olynyk & Bagley together is terrible D, Duren & Bagley will be extremely mistake prone and major difficulties in spacing). Pairing the right guys together this year will be tricky...

[1984Echoes]

Looks like I just repeated what Betrayer said with my last two posts...