Edman85 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 17 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: I'm trying to think of times when the Tigers acquired a first rate bat in exchange for pitching. Yoenis Cespedes certainly qualifies. Have there been others? Yoenis Cespedes, Miguel Cabrera, Placido Polanco, Omar Infante. Do we count Jeimer? Delmon Young, Cam Maybin in 2016 for Ian Krol, Johnny Peralta, Gary Sheffield, Carlos Pena, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I could be wrong but my perception is teams have gotten smarter about trading for "can't miss prospects". Seems like when you trade a prospect for a "veteran" to to speak, it rarely works out that the prospect side wins the trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, oblong said: I could be wrong but my perception is teams have gotten smarter about trading for "can't miss prospects". Seems like when you trade a prospect for a "veteran" to to speak, it rarely works out that the prospect side wins the trade. I don't know if I'd say "rarely", but it does seem like the team trading prospects loses more often than not. I think it's because they are often dealing from a position of weakness where they must trade a player who is too expensive for them to sign and the longer they keep him the less value he has, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't know if I'd say "rarely", but it does seem like the team trading prospects loses more often than not. I think it's because they are often dealing from a position of weakness where they must trade a player who is too expensive for them to sign and the longer they keep him the less value he has, Right. It's definitely hard to figure how much the salary dump or years of control factors should be weighted in a prospect vs vet trade, but they are not small considerations to the FO's making those trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 What always scares me about trading for other team's prospects is that they obviously know more about them than you do so considering how valuable they are to have on a big league roster you have to wonder if there is something that gives that team trepidation about the player. This thought process is more about when a team gives you a list of players to choose from and ones that are off limits. Like the rumors are the Astros told the Tigers that Whitley, Tucker and somebody else who's name forsakes me but we could have Perez. Like to me that would concern me but teams not just the Tigers will still do it and I think that's why they often end up on the losing end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Right. It's definitely hard to figure how much the salary dump or years of control factors should be weighted in a prospect vs vet trade, but they are not small considerations to the FO's making those trades. And sometimes what the team wants from a trade does not align perfectly with what fans want. Edited June 20, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 HS pitchers are totally different than HS hitters, but Avila tried to outsmart everyone by picking Jobe over Mayer at 3, and if Harris & Company pick Clark over Langford at 3, I hope Clark is worth the extra risk of passing on a 2-time SEC star 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Edman85 said: Yoenis Cespedes, Miguel Cabrera, Placido Polanco, Omar Infante. Do we count Jeimer? Delmon Young, Cam Maybin in 2016 for Ian Krol, Johnny Peralta, Gary Sheffield, Carlos Pena, Larry Herndon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: HS pitchers are totally different than HS hitters, but Avila tried to outsmart everyone by picking Jobe over Mayer at 3, and if Harris & Company pick Clark over Langford at 3, I hope Clark is worth the extra risk of passing on a 2-time SEC star I'm not going to go crazy if they pass on Langford for somebody like Clark but to my untrained eyes he seems to be the most safe bet in the draft including Crews. Crews has more upside cause it sounds like he should be able to handle CF but I think Langford's bat will be a safer bet than Crews(that's not to say his is unsafe just not as safe as Langford's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: And sometimes what the team wants from a trade does not align perfectly with what fans want. LOL - We complain now, but the Tigers today are nothing like the old Briggs/Fetzer Campbell regimes where the no 1 reason the Tigers ever moved a player was to get ride of anyone that wanted to be paid fairly and was willing to say so out loud. From Jim Bunning right through to Lance Parrish. Ilitch did lose Scherzer, but the Tigers had made a fair offer. I still believe Max wanted out of JV's shadow even if Tigers had matched the offer -- and personalities hadn't gotten in the way. Edited June 20, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I remember Al Kaline turning down a $100,000 contract in 1971 because he didn't think he was worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 So say the Pirates draft Clark to save some money and the Nationals draft Skenes because they love college pitching. Who would you take Langford or Crews? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: So say the Pirates draft Clark to save some money and the Nationals draft Skenes because they love college pitching. Who would you take Langford or Crews? i might take the LH hitting catcher. Assuming none of these college bats are generational, then for me the differential roster value of an average bat LH catcher is a lot more than an average RH bat OF. I'd take Keel - assuming he does have MLB receiving skills. Edited June 20, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just now, gehringer_2 said: i might take the LH hitting catcher. Assuming none of these college bats are generational, then for me the marginal value of an average bat LH catcher is a lot more than an average RH bat OF. I'd take Keel. Those two bats are special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Cruzer1 said: Those two bats are special. That's what they all say. Are they more 'special' in this year's hype than Torkelson was in 2020? Well, maybe a bad example - Tork may yet be a star - but so far he's looking more like he's going to be in the 'good not great' group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Langford and Crews are both seen as 1-1 candidates over the past few seasons from what I've gathered. It seems like Crews is rated as the bette roverall hitter and could play CF. While Langford looks to have more power but would be a corner OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: So say the Pirates draft Clark to save some money and the Nationals draft Skenes because they love college pitching. Who would you take Langford or Crews? Crews, but it's close, maybe the one who will take less. Any of the clear top five, not Teel, unless he took a huge discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: I remember Al Kaline turning down a $100,000 contract in 1971 because he didn't think he was worth it. Yes that's true. He was right of course, he wasn't worth it, but the other players were really upset because it gave that tightwad Campbell a reason to hold their pay down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Crews Langford Skenes But I'm not the GM. If I was, Meightawn wouldn't be batting fifth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Tigermojo said: Crews Langford Skenes But I'm not the GM. If I was, Meightawn wouldn't be batting fifth. It’s Mayton, but I agree with everything else. Suddenly, this organization needs pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: Yes that's true. He was right of course, he wasn't worth it, but the other players were really upset because it gave that tightwad Campbell a reason to hold their pay down. Apparently...Gordie Howe was responsible for a similar dynamic with the Wings. Wouldn't push for more, so the rest of the team couldn't either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: Apparently...Gordie Howe was responsible for a similar dynamic with the Wings. Wouldn't push for more, so the rest of the team couldn't either I remember that too...Bobby Baun got traded to the Red Wings, went to dinner with Gordie, and told Gordie how much money he was making from his Leafs contract. Gordie couldn't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Christian Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: It’s Mayton, but I agree with everything else. Suddenly, this organization needs pitching. It's Maton, but I don't care who they draft since he won't make it to the bigs for about five years anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroundsquare Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I thought it was Meightonne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Keith Law has us picking Clark, though his explanation is vague and suggests we’re in on all of the top 6. He has Langford falling to Minny at #5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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