Tenacious D Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 If we’re looking at this objectively, Clark looks like the better player. I think some, and I’m guilty, viewed Langford as an opportunity to accelerate our turnaround. Given where we’ve been the last 8 years, it’s understandable. However, as others have pointed out, Clark could end up on a similar timeline to an any college draftee and be the more complete player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't like the idea that we aren't supposed to criticize anything that teams do because they know more than us. However, I think the gap in knowledge is much larger when it comes to amateur players. All most of us have to go off of is second hand scouting reports and an few video clips. Once players have been around for a while, I think the gap narrows somewhat. When it comes to scouting individual players - of course. OTOH I think sometimes there are things that even releatively casual fans can see if they have been following the game for a long time. It's not that hard to see when a front office is just doing something wrong, like the Tigers late discovery of player metrics or their disregard for fielding in the system for so many years. For me right now one might be the way teams fall in love (overvalue) with college pitchers that are breaking ball specialists. I don't know if the ability to measure spin rates has gotten a lot of professional people head over their heels, but a 'devastating' college breaking ball is too often a pitch abandoned a year or two into a pro experience - Casey Mize's split being exhibit #1. I just hope jackson Jobe doesn't turn out to be exhibit #2. Edited July 10, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, oblong said: For me it's a matter of degree. Criticism is fine and that's the nature of being a fan. An irrational fanatic. The ups and downs and bipolar nature of hating the team one minute and loving them the next. For me the line is crossed when some act like they are indeed an educated contemporary of these front office people rather than must baseless speculating. Putting on a headset and recording a podcast in a planet fitness may visually give off an aura of inside dope but that's just window dressing. That person is no different than a guy at the barber shop who calls into 97.1 the ticket. Honestly, given how basically none of the experts nailed the first four picks in this years draft, it probably oughtta caution people about giving too much credence to rumors in general surrounding the draft In other words, when some Angels "insider" tweeted something about the Tigers considering Jacob Gonzalez from Ole Miss at 4, maybe it should have been taken with a few grains of salt. Or even the Kyle Teel talk.... often times, the stuff that gets circulated is out there for a reason, and it may be more cloak and dagger stuff than reality. Edited July 10, 2023 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Honestly, given how basically none of the experts nailed the first four picks in this years draft, it probably oughtta caution people about giving too much credence to rumors in general surrounding the draft In other words, when some Angels "insider" tweeted something about the Tigers considering Jacob Gonzalez from Ole Miss at 4, maybe take it with a few grains of salt. Or even the Kyle Teel talk.... often times, the stuff that gets circulated is out there for a reason, and it may be more cloak and dagger stuff than reality. Truly. Between agents with their agendas and scribes that need new takes to capture eyeballs, a lot of silly stuff goes out. Especially once the season ends for all the prospects and there is nothing real to add to anyone's data base. At least in football there is speculation about combine performance after the season ends and then the actual combine etc. With baseball in the weeks once regular seasons and finally the college WS is over there is just nothing more to add. I think the speculations about whether teams might have internal reasons for not picking in strict player ranking order are more reasonable. Some FO information does leak. But that's a separate issue from the player rankings. But this year even the very reasonable speculation that Pittsburgh would make an underslot play turned out to be wrong. Edited July 10, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Cruzer1 said: McGonigle was drafted as a SS... McGonigle's well-rounded skill set makes him a high-probability big leaguer, perhaps more likely to play some kind of big league role than any other high school player in the 2023 class. As impressive as McGonigle's physical tools are — he has plus bat-to-ball ability, surprising power for his size, and a plus arm — his on-field acumen and fundamentals also carry a ton of weight. He has fantastic baseball feel and instincts, a well-calibrated internal clock at shortstop, and he appears laser focused and competitive between the lines. He'll be just shy of age 19 on draft day and is physically maxed out (or close to it), but unless you're fearful that his present physicality is an indicator that he'll eventually be too bulky to move around on the middle infield, McGonigle is a slam dunk shortstop with enough contact ability and plate discipline to project as an everyday player. His age and frame temper his long-term power projection, but McGonigle is currently strong enough to do doubles damage in both gaps and drop the bat head to golf out some pull-side homers. He lacks the upside of some of its other hitters, but he's as bankable a big league role player as there is in this class. This makes me feel a bit better about Professor McGonigle. I was ok with the pick but wasn't feeling any high-end skills... this says there are more high-end skills than we may have realized... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 The Tigers have a huge need for pitching on all levels of the org. They'll have to find some gems late in this draft or address it via trade or major league free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Edman85 said: With the exception of one person, the people in this thread have something on the degree of 0.01% of the information that the people who made these picks have. Really really harsh draft day opinions are a symptom of hanging out on the left side of the Dunning Kruger chart. At least we're all in the same boat...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: Speaking to the criticism that Clark could take longer to make it to the bigs over someone like Langford, this may be one of the biggest arguments in favor of taking him if, in fact, the Tigers had him ranked higher. The MLB Draft is fun to follow and is important, and you can't completely forget about how players fit into the longer term picture, but I'm not sure it's wise to pencil any of them into lineups 2-3 years down the road.... so if you have a player ranked higher that happens to be a high schooler, the fact that he's ranked higher should probably win out over any sort of shorter term considerations. Somewhat related, but listening to the first half of Cody and Friends podcast this AM, he did bring up the fact that Clark could be entering the bigs as Riley enters into arbitration / knocking on the door of free agency.... theoretically possible, but one suspects that if Riley plays like we think he's gonna play, a long term contract is a definite possibility. Probably the same with Tork, Skubal and others as well. So I get the concern, but it's not like their aren't avenues to ameliorate those concerns either. The flipside is that when those guys are getting more expensive... You're bringing in cheaper guys like Clark/ McGonigle. Also, Keith/ Meadows/ Malloy etc. are a few years behind the 1st wave. So we'll have roughly 3 waves of rookies/ more expensive contracts on the horizon, a few years apart each... That seems more manageable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, kdog said: or major league free agency I think there are a lot of other pitchers like Lorenzen who will actually come to the Tigers to help them build value. Their recent track record is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 40 minutes ago, kdog said: The Tigers have a huge need for pitching on all levels of the org. They'll have to find some gems late in this draft or address it via trade or major league free agency. It's been discussed a lot in the past, but there's probably some value in waiting until later rounds to draft pitchers given the injury risk associated with them. Especially if, as an org, you believe in your believe in your ability to draft and develop them. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: It's been discussed a lot in the past, but there's probably some value in waiting until later rounds to draft pitchers given the injury risk associated with them. Especially if, as an org, you believe in your believe in your ability to draft and develop them. There is some serious HS pitching talent on the board right now... but most will be able to demand a huge signing bonus or they'll go to college... If drafting Anderson in the 2nd gets us one of those pitchers in the 3rd... Then I am now on board with drafting him in the 2nd in order to obtain said, potential, 3rd rounder. I am not right now enthused about his selection. Get me a good pitcher, I will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Yes. Vierling, Torkelson, Baez, and Rogers and maybe Malloy are your RH core and Greene is going to play every day so short term (as in the next year or two) and that is only 5/6 of 9 posittions in the order so at least one RH upgrade in both the IF and OF should be on the offseason shopping list for sure. If Campos could make a major push... That might even out some of the lefty-righty imbalance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: It's been discussed a lot in the past, but there's probably some value in waiting until later rounds to draft pitchers given the injury risk associated with them. Especially if, as an org, you believe in your believe in your ability to draft and develop them. Agreed. Pitchers almost seem certainly to have TJ surgery these days at roughly 3 years in. I think it makes more sense to develop position players and draft pitchers late. You then sign pitchers on short term deals and then , and only then nail down an FA pitcher when club performance makes a championship run possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 Dingler too... But he's currently on the Jake Rogers track... I was hoping for a bit more Piazza there... at least on offense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Drafting in MLB is a crapshoot. Skubal was a 9th round pick. Carpenter was a 19th round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Skubal was only still there in the ninth due to injury. He was rated much higher on talent. Kudos to Avila for getting both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 If we come away from this draft with a solid center fielder and shortstop it doesn’t matter what people say or who else we draft it’s a huge win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 I was eyeing Sykora but Wilson also has a really nice profile. Upper 90's lefty with excellent breaking pitches and a little inconsistent in mechanics which could/ should be ironed out. 6' 3" too as I like pitchers bigger rather than undersized.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlue Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 https://www.mlb.com/video/2023-draft-paul-wilson-lhp?t=mlb-draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 PS: Wilson was ranked 51 by MLB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 10, 2023 Author Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I think he works mid-90's and can reach upper (97) per the scouting reports... There's probably a small amount of projectability in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, 1984Echoes said: I think he works mid-90's and can reach upper (97) per the scouting reports... There's probably a small amount of projectability in there... Even if he can't stay a starter a high 90s lefty fastball with a curve might make a decent reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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