On the Bright Side: 2023 MLB Draft

[Shinzaki]

11 hours ago, casimir said:

The Fat Kid?  That’s got serious cult hero potential.  Can you imagine the merch movement if they still did players’ weekend when he’s crushing it in the bigs?

That was one of Harmon Killebrew's nicknames...popularized in Bouton's Ball Four

[casimir]

9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Same message as to jz68: Check out Jason Foley and Beau Brieske's college stats.

There are definitely other things to consider.

Just like Tarik Skubal after his TJ in college...

Which is what I was getting at with the rest of the paragraph which you cropped out.

[casimir]

7 hours ago, Scottwood said:

I don't really understand all of the discussion happening among the Tiger fanbase about the timeline.  You don't draft for need in baseball and, also, Greene is arguably the only legit building block on the team and he's 22. If Clark develops like the Tigers hope he will, then he'll be in Detroit when Greene is only in his mid 20's.  I don't really see the issue.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about waves.  Just get the best players available into the system.

[Edman85]

7 hours ago, Scottwood said:

I don't really understand all of the discussion happening among the Tiger fanbase about the timeline.  You don't draft for need in baseball and, also, Greene is arguably the only legit building block on the team and he's 22. If Clark develops like the Tigers hope he will, then he'll be in Detroit when Greene is only in his mid 20's.  I don't really see the issue.

It's because Cody and his fanboy cohost mentioned it on their podcast, so everybody has to parrot it.

[Cruzer1]

I must admit, that I hated the pick of Clark over Langford. I hope I am wrong on that. I also felt that it was important for the Tigers to come out of the first day with a shortstop, and McGonigle was one of the top shortstops that was going to be available with the 2nd pick.

[romad1]

General observation:  Player Development Motownforums is more virulent and toxic than the political forums.   Lots of passion leavened with analysis. 

[mtutiger]

7 hours ago, Scottwood said:

I don't really understand all of the discussion happening among the Tiger fanbase about the timeline.  You don't draft for need in baseball and, also, Greene is arguably the only legit building block on the team and he's 22. If Clark develops like the Tigers hope he will, then he'll be in Detroit when Greene is only in his mid 20's.  I don't really see the issue.

If Greene performs, it'd be hard to believe they wouldn't at least attempt to extend him fairly soon either.

The system just needs some talent. If Max Clark was the highest on their board, and I'm guessing he was, take him...

Edited July 11, 2023 by mtutiger

[Toddwert]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

If Greene performs, it'd be hard to believe they wouldn't at least attempt to extend him fairly soon either.

The system just needs some talent. If Max Clark was the highest on their board, and I'm guessing he was, take him...

I agree with just generally need more talent  they also might like High School players because they are less of a finish product so they are moldable to what the Tigers want them to be…. Good organizations have good players coming up at all different timelines (cardinals and Braves) this is what we want the Tigers to be.

[Edman85]

Or if Clark and Langford were roughly equal on the board and Clark was willing to take a million less, take him and spread the money around. Time will tell if they are even able to draft McGonigle if they took Langford.

[Toddwert]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Or if Clark and Langford were roughly equal on the board and Clark was willing to take a million less, take him and spread the money around. Time will tell if they are even able to draft McGonigle if they took Langford.

I think it just comes down to patience with this fan base wore thing after hearing years and years of how great maize,skubel and manning are going to be and then how great Tork and green after going to be… and here we are all those guys are up and we still suck

[Cruzer1]

16 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Or if Clark and Langford were roughly equal on the board and Clark was willing to take a million less, take him and spread the money around. Time will tell if they are even able to draft McGonigle if they took Langford.

True, plus there's a recentcy bias toward Langford, who had a great college world series. Tough to let him get by.

[Cruzer1]

14 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

I think it just comes down to patience with this fan base wore thing after hearing years and years of how great maize,skubel and manning are going to be and then how great Tork and green after going to be… and here we are all those guys are up and we still suck

We didn't have to hear about Skubal, his numbers were very loud. Expectations were high on Manning and Mize because of the draft position.

[Toddwert]

5 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

We didn't have to hear about Skubal, his numbers were very loud. Expectations were high on Manning and Mize because of the draft position.

I’m not really talking about fans who care enough to be active on a message board, I’m talking about the twitter and casual fans

[gehringer_2]

51 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

If Max Clark was the highest on their board, and I'm guessing he was, take him...

I don't remember the exact words Harris used, but from the way he phrased it what I picked up was that Clark was not their top player overall, he was BPA when they picked, i.e. I think they would have taken Crews if he had been there. So assume the common denominator being defense compared to Langford.

Edited July 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't remember the exact words Harris used, but from the way he phrased it what I picked up was that Clark was not their top player overall, he was BPA when they picked, i.e. I think they would have taken Crews if he had been there. So assume the common denominator being defense compared to Langford.

Yep that's how I took it as well. Not sure if it was Crews, Skenes or both but the wording sounded like atleast one of them was higher. 

[mtutiger]

30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't remember the exact words Harris used, but from the way he phrased it what I picked up was that Clark was not their top player overall, he was BPA when they picked, i.e. I think they would have taken Crews if he had been there. So assume the common denominator being defense compared to Langford.

Yeah, that was my interpretation as well.

[Tiger337]

6 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

That was my point.

There was some worry about the salary cap and having both Max Clark and Riley Greene.

How can that be any kind of worry when their timelines are so far apart? I don't see an issue.

Which was my point... same thing you're saying...

If the Tigers are going to be the kind of organization that is not willing to sign a couple of good players, then it's going to be really depressing to be a fan.  I'd rather not think about that.   

[chasfh]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Just think though..... if they "hit" and become MLB players, it opens up trades. I say take the highest ceiling possible.

Remember, we got guys from the Rays front office and Dodgers front office doing our draft now. This feels like Rays and Dodger picks already and I'm all for it. Don't get me wrong. I wish we got Langford over Clark when he was drafted. But the more I think about it, Clark could be the next Byron Buxton with 20 HR's annually instead of 30. I'll take that all day long.

Fine by me, so long as he doesn’t turn into the next Byron Buxton who can’t stay on the field.

[chasfh]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:15 AM, RandyMarsh said:

You can say that about literally every move a franchise makes so just cause were only fans are we never allowed to have an opinion on a move a team you follow makes?

And for the record that's all these are is opinions, I think most on here make it clear that we don't know more about the team than the Tigers do we're just offering up our views on a subject on a message board. 

This is extreme just for the discussion, but it might be the difference between “Wow, I don’t really understand this pick, what do they see in the kid?” and “this pick sucks, we’re so doomed.”

[chasfh]

23 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

I was in a couple of APBA draft leagues for about 20 years. At least the cards don't talk back. Most of the time

OOTP players definitely talk back. Some of them outright lip off.

[Tigermojo]

Nobody knows who will end up with more career WAR between Clark or Langford. I understand wanting the more complete hitter, impact bat, of Langford because we just don't have many here in Detroit. I also look at Comerica Park and envision Clark's speed, defense and arm being very valuable in that vast centerfield. I like Clark because I think he'll be able to impact games in a way very few players can. Could you really go wrong with any of the top five? I'd be happy with any of them.

[chasfh]

23 hours ago, jz68 said:

One of the ESPN senior writers had this to say....

 

Schoenfield: I actually love that the Tigers instead went with Clark. By all accounts, Clark is a 1-1 type of talent in another draft -- one that wasn't as top-loaded as this one -- and I think the upside over Langford is clear: Clark has a more well-rounded game thanks to his blazing speed and defense in center field. That's going to create a lot of added value that Langford, who is likely limited to an outfield corner, probably won't possess. Langford has more raw power, but give me the complete player.

The idea that this is a loaded draft for hitters leads into something I’ve been wondering about: are kids coming through the draft miles more advanced than prior drafts because of performance science seeping down from what only the majors had once to the amateur (e.g., high school) level? Are kids with a profile to go pro just becoming greater hitters as a class versus prior classes, because of the ability to adjust based on data that players before them never had? It’s going to even out one day if true, but maybe we are going into a short period of some have it and some don’t, which might lead to hitters stepping off the spaceship from Planet Baseball, like de la Cruz, for a few years.

[CMRivdogs]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OOTP players definitely talk back. Some of them outright lip off.

I've been playing the on line modified version a bit lately. You can tell when you have no chance of signing a player who just ties up your player budget. I won't even get into the asinine moves your assistant general manager tends to make. 

[chasfh]

21 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

I think there are a lot of other pitchers like Lorenzen who will actually come to the Tigers to help them build value. Their recent track record is pretty good.

I think it’ll be interesting to see whether the changes the Tigers have made to their philosophies and approaches, as well as the success they are showing in both pitching and defense, will lead to more pitchers being interested in coming here this winter.

I don’t we’re as close to getting hitters of similar comp yet.

[chasfh]

20 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Drafting in MLB is a crapshoot. Skubal was a 9th round pick. Carpenter was a 19th round pick.

True to some degree, although as rounds go, ninth rounds have better results on an on an overall basis than 19th round, and that when you look at career results for all the rounds, it really does go pretty sequentially that earlier-round picks perform better as a class than later-round picks. I remember seeing this on a website called Baseball Gauge before Forman bought it and took it offline.