2022 Michigan Football

[romad1]

53 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Just saw this thread today. Bacon is traditionally a very fair and balanced reporter for Michigan sports, and I think this is significant, and well worth the read.

I think it's fully possible the Big Ten elected to wait until law enforcement concluded their investigation to start theirs. Bacon mentions this possibility briefly towards the end of his thread, but I don't know if he does that theory justice, because I could fully understand why the B1G would want to do that, from a corporate standpoint. It's an easy path 'out' from a toxic situation that's inevitably going to leave some of your constituents upset... Allow law enforcement to investigate first, let them do the dirty work, then come in from behind with clean-up if/where needed.

If Crump and/or others are charged with assault this week, there is not much the B1G needs to do with them. MSU will likely formally boot them from the team, and they will likely be looking at a lengthy period of probation, if they get a reasonable judge (and assuming there is no criminal history). I don't foresee the B1G levying any sort of institutional charge against MSU, even despite what is contained here. Maybe the game officials or field mics can corroborate some of it, but a lot of it (language in particular) will be denied, and that's that. It's laying the foundation for a possible pattern of institutional behavior, but I can't imagine what the B1G would do with it on its own. A public reprimand? It's hard to say that MSU did anything wrong in their response to the tunnel incident, quickly suspending eight players and issuing public apologies.

I will say - if this is what Warren is doing, there would be no harm in saying so. A two-sentence statement reading that the investigation remains ongoing and that the B1G is awaiting the results of the police report would silence a lot of this.

I will further say (and this is somewhat political so I'll tread carefully) that a lot of the criticisms laid upon the feet of Warren here can be extended to the UMPD, short of something unknown being contained in the report. That assumption taken as true (that nothing new earth-shattering is going to come out that took them time to flesh out), Bacon is 100% correct that this two-week investigation could have been completed by a journalist in two days. There is no need to churn this out long-term, and police departments often do so for bureaucratic reasons (so-and-so is on vacation, this needs to be approved by X, this needs Y's signature too) that defy a sense of justice. Cases that can be forwarded to a prosecutor in two days should be forwarded to a prosecutor in two days.

In this case, I still firmly believe that Crump should have been arrested the day of the incident. Dragging this out, and all cases like it, only hurts the victim(s), the alleged perpetrator(s), and everyone else involved. I'll step down from the soap box now.

 

 

Yeah, the B1G commissioner's kid plays for the Spartans. 

[gehringer_2]

53 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

lot of the criticisms laid upon the feet of Warren here can be extended to the UMPD,

no, the UMDPSS doesn't quite the match the investigative prowess of the FBI. 

[MichiganCardinal]

12 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Yeah, the B1G commissioner's kid plays for the Spartans. 

I didn't know this until I read it here. If anything, I think it's another reason to rely on others (including LE) to manage the bulk of the investigation.

[MichiganCardinal]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

no, the UMDPSS doesn't quite the match the investigative prowess of the FBI. 

I know this was tongue-in-cheek, but I don't think you need federal funding or resources to do this kind of investigation. Get the statements of the police who were present, take the statements of all victims and willing alleged perps, take the statements of any witness that comes forward, review the video, and type the report.

I get that this was a more nuanced / high-profile investigation than the department is probably used to, but I still don't get how it takes two weeks.

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I know this was tongue-in-cheek, but I don't think you need federal funding or resources to do this kind of investigation. Get the statements of the police who were present, take the statements of all victims and willing alleged perps, take the statements of any witness that comes forward, review the video, and type the report.

I get that this was a more nuanced / high-profile investigation than the department is probably used to, but I still don't get how it takes two weeks.

they probably vetted the language of each question asked with legal. 

And TBF, maybe there are  some procedural issues unique to the college environ - for instance how many of the witnesses were minors, did they need advocates before they could be spoken to, etc? The U might have internal policies on some of this stuff a regular PD wouldn't, that's one reason they run their own depts after all.  And of course if a lot of 'witnesses' had lawyered up already you end up with negotiations on interviews that have to play out before you can write off who is uncooperative etc.

Edited November 14, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

nobody who has followed the msu football program since dantonio got there would find any of this surprising.

i dont know about all that stuff on the sidelines, its all hearsay and horrible things are said on sidelines all the time.  that said, if youve watched this game in recent times, the idea that msu players might try to hurt michigan players is par for the course.

nothing institutionally will happen to msu.  the players involved will be suspended for the rest of the season and that's it.  

[MichiganCardinal]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

they probably vetted the language of each question asked with legal. 

And TBF, maybe there are  some procedural issues unique to the college environ - for instance how many of the witnesses were minors, did they need advocates before they could be spoken to, etc? The U might have internal policies on some of this stuff a regular PD wouldn't, that's one reason they run their own depts after all.  And of course if a lot of 'witnesses' had lawyered up already you end up with negotiations on interviews that have to play out before you can write off who is uncooperative etc.

It's possible. I'll be nicer I suppose. 🙂 

It's not as bad as some departments I've seen, holding cases for months seemingly hoping that parties (victims) will forget. Surely that wasn't the case here, so I guess I should give them some benefit of the doubt.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I'd like to see Michigan work in Andrel Anthony more. I can't understand why a guy whose 6'2 and that athletic rarely gets targeted. Is there something I am missing here with Anthony? Is he going out and looking like a slug at practice? Why is a 6'2 wideout not a big play, jump ball guy or a goal line stud?

[gehringer_2]

31 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'd like to see Michigan work in Andrel Anthony more. I can't understand why a guy whose 6'2 and that athletic rarely gets targeted. Is there something I am missing here with Anthony? Is he going out and looking like a slug at practice? Why is a 6'2 wideout not a big play, jump ball guy or a goal line stud?

IDK, you don't see the film of the guys on the other side of the field to know if they were open, but in general the guys JJ was trying to hit long were not achieving separation, so if Anthony was, JJ would have been pretty remiss not to throw it his way.

[djhutch]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'd like to see Michigan work in Andrel Anthony more. I can't understand why a guy whose 6'2 and that athletic rarely gets targeted. Is there something I am missing here with Anthony? Is he going out and looking like a slug at practice? Why is a 6'2 wideout not a big play, jump ball guy or a goal line stud?

JJ has worked the game plans to perfection - Run the ball, Use your own feet if you have to, & pass enough to keep the defense honest.  I've felt the entire receiving corp, minus Ronnie Bell, has under-performed - but again, I think that's due in part to the way they're game planning.

[buddha]

you saw in the nebraska game how they missed their tight ends.  schoonmaker over the middle has been a real go-to pass for them this year.

the receivers didnt have a lot of separation against nebraska.  it doesnt matter in the end because its nebraska, but it might matter againat another team in red.

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, djhutch said:

JJ has worked the game plans to perfection - Run the ball, Use your own feet if you have to, & pass enough to keep the defense honest.  I've felt the entire receiving corp, minus Ronnie Bell, has under-performed - but again, I think that's due in part to the way they're game planning.

I'd agree the game plans have only tried to stretch the field just enough to keep the coverage honest, but I also think that they'd going deep more if their guys were getting open. JJ has gotten the message this season not force things and I tend to belief some of those throws are on the long side because the play is covered. It's easy for guys in the booth to say 'he should throw it short and let his receiver come back to it' because the potential INT isn't going on their stat sheet.  

Edited November 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

Michigan on the whole is such an enigma this year. Clearly they’re good. You don’t go 10-0 without being good. But they could seriously be the #1 team in the nation or somewhere between #10-20, and I wouldn’t be surprised either way.

Are they limited because their skill set is limited? Or because they have been able to be limited and still win games easily? Or do they just make it look easy?

You can’t be upset at how they’ve won games, because it works. Take care of the ball, win in the trenches, take your points, and get out. Are they good enough at that style of play though to beat the Deep South Buckeyes and the SEC though? Are they doing that play out of necessity or convenience?

Two weeks from now will be telling.

[buddha]

i think their defense is in for a rude awakening against a motivated ohio state team playing at home.  no more hutch/ojabo wrecking osu tackles like last year.  and lets remember, osu scored a lot of points and moved the ball fairly well on michigan.  and this year they get osu refs.

otoh, michigan's running game is better than last year.  i am worried about right tackle.  osu has two five star dynamic first round pick defensive ends.  passing downs will be a big problem for michigan.

hopefully they dont have too many of those.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

i think their defense is in for a rude awakening against a motivated ohio state team playing at home.  no more hutch/ojabo wrecking osu tackles like last year.  and lets remember, osu scored a lot of points and moved the ball fairly well on michigan.  and this year they get osu refs.

otoh, michigan's running game is better than last year.  i am worried about right tackle.  osu has two five star dynamic first round pick defensive ends.  passing downs will be a big problem for michigan.

hopefully they dont have too many of those.

has M run a single screen play this season? Has to be in the play book for use against some team with more vigorous pursuit.....?

The one thing they have underutilized IMO is JJ's ability to throw on the run. He is pretty fabulous delivering the ball at a flat out run. Given that it's also hard to believe all those QB R/P options into the end zone corner, which I haven't seen them run either, are not waiting in the playbook. Of course that can also be a TE play and they are down there.....

On the one hand, I get the idea of sitting on stuff you don't want to show the opposition. OTOH, I don't like the idea that the first time you try to run a play is under the pressure level of on the road in your biggest rivalry game with downs at an absolute premium.

[Stanley70]

Michigan has ran a few screens. I remember one against MSU where JJ overthrew Edwards on third and goal. They have thrown a few to Wilson and Bell also.

Michigan has more sacks this year than last, but the lack of a consistent edge pass rush is worrisome. 

The ground game has just reached 1970s  level dominance to where they haven't needed to pass. It looked good against the cupcakes early on, but they haven't hit many downfield shots since. They haven't tried many either. 

[RandyMarsh]

I still get the feeling UM has only scratched the surface of their playbook and are going to surprise people in Columbus in regards to some of the designs and plays you will see.

Of course if JJ is off the mark it really doesn't matter but they've just been so vanilla on offense particularly in the red zone it just makes you think they have to be keeping a bunch of plays a secret.

Edited November 15, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Hongbit]

27 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I still get the feeling UM has only scratched the surface of their playbook and are going to surprise people in Columbus in regards to some of the designs and plays you will see.

Of course if JJ is off the mark it really doesn't matter but they've just been so vanilla on offense particularly in the red zone it just makes you think they have to be keeping a bunch of plays a secret.

I heard someone on The Ticket mention this possibility a few days ago.  I thought it was a completely preposterous idea 10 games into the season but what the hell do I know.   We will find out in 2 weeks. 

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I heard someone on The Ticket mention this possibility a few days ago.  I thought it was a completely preposterous idea 10 games into the season but what the hell do I know.   We will find out in 2 weeks. 

Normally I would agree but let's face it they really haven't been tested at all the whole season and outside of a brief moment in the Maryland game they never were even remotely in danger of losing so there was never a need to open up the playbook. 

Why expose any plays when the opponent can't stop your run game? 

[Hongbit]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Normally I would agree but let's face it they really haven't been tested at all the whole season and outside of a brief moment in the Maryland game they never were even remotely in danger of losing so there was never a need to open up the playbook. 

Why expose any plays when the opponent can't stop your run game? 

The flip side is the more you put out there, the more stuff your opponent has to prepare against in a limited time.  It can create a paralysis by over analysis situation.  

[MichiganCardinal]

Last year's success came as a total surprise because of 2020, but I do recall a steep upward trend in terms of the play-calling complexity and the offense's overall abilities to stretch the field when they wanted. It felt like after MSU, and particularly after Penn State, they really opened up the playbook. There were quite a few gadget plays against OSU (the flea flicker, the screens to Edwards, bringing in JJ for a couple plays) that when combined with Hassan's rushing and the line's domination never allowed OSU to stand tall. They were on their heels from the first possession.

Then we saw much of the same against Iowa, who was completely outmatched by it... then much of the same against Georgia, who laughed in their face. I can recall them running a flea flicker against Georgia that it looked like Georgia was just absolutely anticipating from the jump.

I doubt they've completely lost that ability to stretch the field. Maybe we'll start to see some flashes this week against Illinois.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I doubt they've completely lost that ability to stretch the field. Maybe we'll start to see some flashes this week against Illinois.

I hope Edwards gets healthy because I'd like to see them just start him in the I, put him in motion wide and then send him straight down the field as a WR as a regular part of the offense. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I forgot just how close last year's team was to losing multiple games. Wins against Rutgers by 7, Nebraska by 3, and Penn State by 4 before they took off. I find it hard to believe the B1G has taken such a step back that they would run the schedule like they have this year without having gotten at least a little bit better.

It's really remarkable how easy they've made it look this year. Only one game decided by single digits (and that one was a 15-point game until 45 seconds were left). An average margin of victory of 30.2 points. Even removing the non-conference games, a margin of victory average of 21.8 points in conference. They've coasted through a B1G schedule. For context, the 2006 Michigan team had an average margin of victory of 17.3 heading into The Game (16.0 in conference). The 1997 National Championship team had an average of 19.7 heading The Game (18.7 in conference, 17.3 for the season).

[RandyMarsh]

Michigan still number 3 in the CFP. 1. UGA 2. OSU 3. UM 4. TCU 5. Tenn 6. LSU 7. USC 8. Bama 9. Clemson 10. Utah

[Motor City Sonics]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:10 PM, RandyMarsh said:

Michigan still number 3 in the CFP. 1. UGA 2. OSU 3. UM 4. TCU 5. Tenn 6. LSU 7. USC 8. Bama 9. Clemson 10. Utah

its exactly what I said it would be in the other thread.   these folks are predictable.     Nice weekend, Pac 12