Where Do Things End With Vlad? (h/t romad1)

[romad1]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'd take the Kabul example exactly as the opposite. Enough of the Afghans refused to be pacified that neither the CCCP or the USA could make it work. We look at Kabul as having fallen because the Afghans didn't fight, but those were just "our" Afghans that declined to fight, the other side was most definitely Afghans that were fighting. 

If anything, what Ukraine lacks is a unifying ideology of resistance like Maoism or Islam that has some history of holding guerrilla movements together. Or another way to put is is whether Kyiv has reached a point of 1st worldliness where they would rather be politically dominated than physically reduced back to the middle ages by war. To be perfectly honest, that is not a black and white question. Putin and his oligarchy don't run a prison state (in the sense that no-one can get out) anymore like the CCCP. If you are politically disinterested you can be left alone,  send your kids to school, if they do well they can probably emigrate to the EU or North America. 

There are plenty of stories about Ukraine that we are hearing that they have a lot of fight in them.  That they are becoming more unified against Putin.   BUT, I can't be sure if that's real because of the ability of propaganda to sell a story.

As for the geography... it was plenty good for insurrection during WWII. 

[romad1]

this is the stuff I keep hearing and seeing

 

[1984Echoes]

17 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

... Putin is adamant... He wants all US Forces and NATO out of Warsaw Pact countries so he can reinstitute the power of the Soviet Union, including controlling former WP countries. He has put it into writing:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tensions-between-u-russia-just-175129111.html

... Based on the response he has given: I mobilize NATO forces to Poland, Germany, and Rumania. Numbering in the 100's of thousands. I mobilize tank and artillery divisions....

We've just sold 250 Abrams tanks to Poland:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-announces-abrams-tanks-poland-102929072.html

[gehringer_2]

44 minutes ago, romad1 said:

this is the stuff I keep hearing and seeing

 

And Crimea was different. It has its own individual history and ethnicity

[romad1]

43 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

We've just sold 250 Abrams tanks to Poland:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-announces-abrams-tanks-poland-102929072.html

good 

[1984Echoes]

I'll throw out another harsh "sanction":

The day Russian troops step onto any additional Ukrainian territory, have Putin declared a War Criminal.

It's an unprovoked military attack bent on killing Ukrainians. 

War Criminal.

[romad1]

14 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'll throw out another harsh "sanction":

The day Russian troops step onto any additional Ukrainian territory, have Putin declared a War Criminal.

It's an unprovoked military attack bent on killing Ukrainians. 

War Criminal.

Declared...you can do at any time.   Having him judged at the International Court would require the legal proceedings.  It would be something to do.   It would have the impact of the various International Left trials against Henry Kissinger and so forth.  

The US and EU and NATO will be able to sanction him.  The UN isn't going to do that most likely because of Russia's veto in the UNSC.   Unless he is toppled from power somehow. 

[romad1]

Not unexpected.

 

[romad1]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

And Crimea was different. It has its own individual history and ethnicity

Crimea has that Turkish population hence Erdogan interest 

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Crimea has that Turkish population hence Erdogan interest 

yeah - any Turkish leader has to prefer a non-aligned Ukraine running Sevastopol to the Russians but regardless of what happens in Ukraine or Donbass, it's hard to imagine the Russians leaving Crimea again any time soon.

Edited February 18, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

Not unexpected.

 

The Russians fake fucking excuse to attack Ukraine.

Further details:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/last-piece-putin-puzzle-slots-180615525.html

[1984Echoes]

38 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

... it's hard to imagine the Russians leaving Crimea again any time soon.

That will never happen.

I would trade an agreement that Russia has Crimea - fait accompli.

For Russia leaving Ukraine alone. Which includes getting their forces & equipment out of the Donbas.

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

... Having him judged at the International Court would require the legal proceedings.  It would be something to do...

Yeah, I get all that.

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.

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I'm just sayin'...

[mtutiger]

Oh my... they filmed the video two days ago?

[romad1]

sloppy slavs

[1984Echoes]

Trilateral agreement between Poland, the UK, and Ukraine supporting Ukrainian independence.

Not certain it's worth much... but it most likely gives domestic cover for Poland and the UK to do anything and everything possible to fight off Russian aggression in Ukraine. Again, uncertain what that means exactly but... they may be a pipeline of weapons and other stuff into Ukraine.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-poland-uk-agree-accord-210055710.html

[Hongbit]

Seems like they are waiting for the end of the Olympics as to not break the unwritten rule of no warfare during the games.   Russia is already on thin ice for doping and Vlad doesn’t want to get the permaban from the IOC.  The Olympics have always are way more than an athletic competition for tMoscow.   Its a propaganda machine they have been tapping for decades to drum support and show strength to their masses 

[romad1]

Wes Clark just now was going on about the assassination plans …yes this is the scary stuff

[romad1]

 

[chasfh]

Object lesson, right under our very noses.

 

[romad1]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Object lesson, right under our very noses.

 

Not watching these Olympics is the only thing most of us can do. 

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Not watching these Olympics is the only thing most of us can do. 

speaking of which, if Xi has leaned on Putin to be good until the game are over, that would make maybe next wed to thurs as Putin's 'go' days. Rain Mon/Tues with weather in the 50s though so the talk of the middle of Feb being the hardest ground is a miss.

[romad1]

Say the bubbas and neck beards had succeeded on 1/6…they had the scaffolding out and were hanging anyone who gain sayed them.  People would be sorely pressed to demonstrate courage.  

Edited February 19, 2022 by romad1

[1984Echoes]

Which is why we prefer an ADULT in the White House and not a TERRIBLE TWO's TANGERINE TODDLER:

(this won't just be a challenge that Biden has met to-date, but a challenge both during Russian aggression and for the foreseeable future... meaning years...):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-pursues-grey-zone-tactics-203202677.html

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

Object lesson, right under our very noses.

 

The key takeaway:

 

I would go further and say that the international community failed to protect Valieva and other athletes because it refused to deal seriously with Russia’s doping conspiracy. By not cracking down, the world allows Putin to carry on.

This is the same signal the world sent Putin by refusing to deal seriously with his invasion of Georgia in 2008 and of Ukraine in 2014. The message that the Russian tyrant receives is that the international community is weak and feckless and he can do what he wants. Hence he is now mobilizing as many as 190,000 troops on the borders of Ukraine. An invasion could come any day. If the world does not respond more strongly to Russian transgressions in the future than it has in the past, Putin will be emboldened to commit even worse crimes — and so will other dictators.