ewsieg Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, chasfh said: OK. I would counter that if this statement were an actual problem, US would be working hard to fix it and mollify the offended parties. If they're not doing that, they must not think it's much of a problem. Heads of State, such as Macron, expressed their disappointment with it as they felt it could hinder peace talks he was having with Putin. Here is the Biden walk back Quote “The president’s point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region. He was not discussing Putin’s power in Russia, or regime change,” I mean, in re-reading what Biden said at the end of the speech, it's identical. Anyone disagreeing with that would be equivalent to my buddy texting me that Blashill should be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 What Biden said was right and correct. Sorry that offends anyone other than the slaughtered people of Ukraine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: and just to expand on the last point, it's actually wonderful that the US is self-critical, the only issue I have is that too often we are self-critical about silly things "The President told the truth! Reactions at 11:00" and not critical enough about important things - for instance the way so much of the US journalism fell in behind the invasion of Iraq. ( or even 'Gulf of Tonkin' in its day FTM ) It kinda goes back to the Washington Post headline (ie. GLOBAL UPROAR) versus the more muted reaction that the remarks actually recieved.... including from Moscow! It's fine to be critical of the remarks in terms of geopolitics while recognizing that they aren't a DEFCON 1 situation and that the remarks may be received differently depending on who the audience is. I don't get why that is controversial, but here we are. Edited March 28, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: What Biden said was right and correct. Sorry that offends anyone other than the slaughtered people of Ukraine. hey, don't the people Putin murders elsewhere get a vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 6 hours ago, romad1 said: Where do things end with Vlad? Hopefully with his head cut off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Hopefully with his head cut off? concur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Hopefully with his head cut off? You kid or you don't, but either way, this is why I think the biggest risk is Putin pushing buttons to take the whole world down with him. Because is there any way Putin or anyone else believes he can be rehabilitated back into the community of nations as the leader of a nuclear power? Everyone including Putin knows what the potential outcomes are: either he wins, or he dies. Right? Or am I missing additional potential outcomes? After all, what would Trump do in that situation? Push a button, of course, because if he can't win, then nobody wins. And Hitler definitely would have pushed a button if he had one, instead of going out by his own hand like a weak little bitch. So why would we assume Putin will accept a loss, which would just lead to his death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Not cool Vladdie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: ... Because is there any way Putin or anyone else believes he can be rehabilitated back into the community of nations as the leader of a nuclear power? ... Nope, absolutely not. At least in my mind it's a hard no. As to some of your other questions... I think there is nothing anyone can do outside of Russia... so it's a moot point anyways. But inside Russia is where it gets tricky... I don't necessarily believe Putin will lose his head over what he has done so far... But the oligarchs aren't stupid either. They are in a permanently damaged financial situation (for however many years "permanent" actually means) and, even though they no longer are in "Putin's inner circle", I can't imagine they have zero contacts both within the inner circle and with Putin himself. Any serious griping from the oligarchs or the inner circle will have some kind of impact on Putin's leadership, including and up to "you need to step down." What actual chances of that happening are... unknown. But it's not zero either, and it may, or may not include, violence. The other thing is: I don't think the Russians are stopping anything at this point. After the rainy season, in another month or so, the ground will dry up and Russian tanks can roll again. There may be another secondary invasion beginning mid-May or so. ONLY if Ukraine survives that and damages Russian invading forces will the "inner circle" talking get loud enough for there to be any chance of regime change in Russia. And I won't bet on a violent change either. Russia may back off (if Ukraine survives a second assault), ask Putin to retire to his billionaires mansion in southern Russia, and simply hide/ protect him while emplacing a less belligerent leader. But... I'm certain Putin will have something to say about that scenario. Currently, the world is stuck with a belligerent, fascist, murderous dictator at the head of a nuclear state... with no real way out of that aside from what Russian Insiders may, or may not be able to do. In whatever direction Russia turns over the next several months... Everyone on the planet seriously hopes that Putin isn't so reckless/ dangerous/ belligerent that he actually decides to start pushing buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Personally, I want his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, romad1 said: Not cool Vladdie Because... this... I saw this earlier and was going to post this... So in negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, the Russians decide that it's an OK idea to poison/ murder the Ukrainian negotiators? Or maybe they were just F'ing with them with some kind of irritant? Either way... WTF is wrong with these pricks? Where is the Queen of Hearts when you need her? "Adolph Putin... OFF with your Head!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Hopefully with his head cut off? Maybe send Will Smith over there to slap his head off? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I think Biden should draw another red line around Zelensky. Tell Putin that his life is tied to Zelensky's now. If Putin wants to survive the year, then Zelensky has to survive the year. And do it on a kid's show to really drive home the point. Like the one that Mo Rocca does on Saturday mornings on CBS. "Sir, this is an Arby's" style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, oblong said: I love how the anti Dem talking points all revolve around things that are made up.... Literally conjured up words Biden never said. What do these people think, we can't hear the words he actually said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, ewsieg said: Heads of State, such as Macron, expressed their disappointment with it as they felt it could hinder peace talks he was having with Putin. Here is the Biden walk back I mean, in re-reading what Biden said at the end of the speech, it's identical. Anyone disagreeing with that would be equivalent to my buddy texting me that Blashill should be fired. That's not a walk back. How does someone walk back what they didn't say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: What Biden said was right and correct. Sorry that offends anyone other than the slaughtered people of Ukraine. Hell yeah it was brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I also love how Biden walking it back is someone other than Biden doing the alleged walking back... anonymously if I remember correctly. So now Biden never said what E says he said and also never said the walk back E said he did. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 This thread is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, pfife said: This thread is correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, chasfh said: You kid or you don't, but either way, this is why I think the biggest risk is Putin pushing buttons to take the whole world down with him. Because is there any way Putin or anyone else believes he can be rehabilitated back into the community of nations as the leader of a nuclear power? Everyone including Putin knows what the potential outcomes are: either he wins, or he dies. Right? Or am I missing additional potential outcomes? After all, what would Trump do in that situation? Push a button, of course, because if he can't win, then nobody wins. And Hitler definitely would have pushed a button if he had one, instead of going out by his own hand like a weak little bitch. So why would we assume Putin will accept a loss, which would just lead to his death? I don't think Trump would do that. He just fantasizes about stuff like that. He would convince himself and his followers that he actually did win or that it was somebody else's fault. Putin is scarier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Excellent! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 That's a new one lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think Trump would do that. He just fantasizes about stuff like that. He would convince himself and his followers that he actually did win or that it was somebody else's fault. Putin is scarier. Disagree. If he knows he's a goner, a dead duck, I think he pushes the button on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, mtutiger said: That's a new one lol An Italian saying that an Irishman needs to be careful about what he says is pretty funny 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Lol, Biden's parents arrived from Donegal last week. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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