gehringer_2 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Unless we (NATO countries, maybe even the US) can get them the MIG's that they want, and tanks and APC's and mobile artillery, they won't be able to make any significant gains against the Russians... Whatever land Russia is able to take, they will most likely be able to hold. the level of support from Europe and the US is certainly a key determinant and what it will be is largely still unknown. It's not hard to imagine the US/Euros pulling back from the possibility of Ukraine actually dealing the Russians an outright territorial defeat -despite what is turning into a non-zero possibility they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 The other aspect which probably isn't stressed enough is how much Russian doctrine in Syria/Chechnya/Azerbejian etc was able to depend on a level initiative achievable because their opponents didn't have much tactical intelligence capability against them. The Ukrainians apparently are being supplied by the West with the kind of tactical intelligence on Russian maneuver that denies them any kind of battlefield initiative advantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think we underestimate the level of understanding in the Russian public. Most Russians have lived most of their lives under a repressive propagandist regime. The compartmentalization of what is 'understood' in public vs what is understood 'around the kitchen table' as they say, is complete. I think the bigger problem is not that the Russian public doesn't understand enough about the fact the what the regime says is FOS - if nothing else the disappearance of virtually all independent media is a clue that doesn't take long to lead one to the conclusion that something pretty big is being hidden - plus the shear volume of one on one family and business communication from Russia to Ukraine makes it impossible for reality not to seep in(out?). I think the bigger problem is that the public political culture has been pretty much ground into submission by literally a thousand years of this. They lack less the knowledge that could lead to action than a level of political hope that anything they do can make a difference -- or is worth risk of bringing the wrath of state down upon them. Understood, all good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: the level of support from Europe and the US is certainly a key determinant and what it will be is largely still unknown. It's not hard to imagine the US/Euros pulling back from the possibility of Ukraine actually dealing the Russians an outright territorial defeat -despite what is turning into a non-zero possibility they could. If the EU/NATO didn't have the Baltics or Poland or other former Warsaw pact states, I'd be more inclined to agree. But they do, and as such there are internal costs that come with pulling back as well. Tend to believe this is underrated when people speculate on whether there will be a pullback or when/if the west will thaw relations with Russia. Edited April 5, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Fascinating I have read a couple of publicly and non-publicly available bios of him and the word reptile comes up more than once. Edited April 5, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Better late than never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, romad1 said: I think this is the home of one of the VDV (airborne) divisions. This may be a grieving widow or mother. yep https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/331st_Guards_Airborne_Regiment Edited April 5, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Quick question: Has anyone in here been to Ukraine or Russia aside from me...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Quick question: Has anyone in here been to Ukraine or Russia aside from me...? Nah. When did you go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 this is shite https://twitter.com/johnjharwood/status/1511469708335325184?s=21&t=F5jWEAluWNMEkYmsqow6-g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, romad1 said: this is shite https://twitter.com/johnjharwood/status/1511469708335325184?s=21&t=F5jWEAluWNMEkYmsqow6-g That’s disgusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 “Both sides” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 2 hours ago, romad1 said: Nah. When did you go? 1993. It's been awhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: 1993. It's been awhile... My knowledge mostly comes from Bald and Bankrupt and the books I read in grad school. I can't travel there now for reasons. Impression: besides the glittering cities and the nice dachas of the elites, the average Russian has a life not too different than they did 40 years ago save for the availability of cars and a bit more variety in food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Yes, lets flush these pieces of shiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 This is a beautiful use of an ambush position by a single tank and coordinated with artillery to cause chaos among the very shabby Russian mixed armor and infantry unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, romad1 said: Yes, lets flush these pieces of shiz What is the practical meaning of this? Is it just paperwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 That's not going to work out well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, oblong said: What is the practical meaning of this? Is it just paperwork? Much of this is just the effect of stripping away the bullshit strata laid down by the last 10 years of Putin propaganda that this is a war against Nazis. Necessary for other actions. Such as the international criminal court punishments of the regime war criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 1 hour ago, romad1 said: Yes, lets flush these pieces of shiz Prepare to be disappointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, ben9753 said: Prepare to be disappointed The previous two votes got sufficient votes to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 1 hour ago, romad1 said: Much of this is just the effect of stripping away the bullshit strata laid down by the last 10 years of Putin propaganda that this is a war against Nazis. Necessary for other actions. Such as the international criminal court punishments of the regime war criminals. Call me cynical but I don't think anybody is going to really pay for this. We won't have a Nuremberg. This is going to drag out for a few years and eventually in the US it will be overtaken by the 2024 POTUS race. It'll just be another one of those "over there" things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, oblong said: Call me cynical but I don't think anybody is going to really pay for this. We won't have a Nuremberg. This is going to drag out for a few years and eventually in the US it will be overtaken by the 2024 POTUS race. It'll just be another one of those "over there" things. The existence of this thread is based on the exact opposite impulse. It has been proven that anti-vax disinformation has dropped off precipitously since the war, because the russian bot farms are underpaid and occupied with fighting their propaganda war on Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 14 minutes ago, romad1 said: The existence of this thread is based on the exact opposite impulse. It has been proven that anti-vax disinformation has dropped off precipitously since the war, because the russian bot farms are underpaid and occupied with fighting their propaganda war on Ukraine. I sincerely hope and pray you are right and I am wrong because it means lives will be saved and people will be punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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