1984Echoes Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: ... So I wasn't particularly then and really still am not all that worked up over Crimea. But Ukraine has morphed into a bigger issue for the overall future of Europe Russia's only southern warm water naval base is in Sevastopol. There is no possible way that Putin would lose that to the potential that Ukraine joins NATO. I also am not worked up over Crimea because I look at that as a military and political reality. Plus some of the Russian-controlled history as you've mentioned... Even though Crimea has changed hands throughout history, multiple times (originally the Greeks, who founded the coastal villages at the time, Turkey, Ukraine, Russia, Crimean Tatars, etc...), and, therefore do not recognize Russian sovereignty based on "history".... I fallback on the military reality of Crimea: No. Possible. Way. Putin. Will Lose. Crimea. On the other hand, I have contempt for him running Russian troops into parts of Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine (the Donbass) simply because he wants to screw with his neighboring countries. Edited February 12, 2022 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Might just be good planning Lvov is going to be the defacto capital of wartime Ukraine unless the defenders of Kiev can hold out longer than Putin can afford the sanctions and other pain inflicted on him. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, mtutiger said: Fair enough... I just really wish that people arguing the position highlighted above would just freely admit that they do not care about the wishes of the majority of 43 million Ukranians. Don't couch it in history or sphere of influence or anything like that, just admit that one doesn't give a shit. That never happens with the Putin apologists tho... They may not care about Ukrainians, but they do care about pissing off liberals who they believe want to defend Ukraine, and really, isn’t that the crux of that biscuit? Edited February 12, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 My prediction is that Vlad is will enter Ukraine and spend a few weeks doing more saber rattling than actual wartime damage. He will walk away from the negotiation table with all the Western leaders and as tensions rise towards possible WW3, he will choose to negotiate with his favorite asset, Trump. Vlad backs down and Trump takes credit and launches his campaign back to the White House. The plan all along was to get Russia back in control of the White House and not Kiev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, Hongbit said: My prediction is that Vlad is will enter Ukraine and spend a few weeks doing more saber rattling than actual wartime damage. He will walk away from the negotiation table with all the Western leaders and as tensions rise towards possible WW3, he will choose to negotiate with his favorite asset, Trump. Vlad backs down and Trump takes credit and launches his campaign back to the White House. The plan all along was to get Russia back in control of the White House and not Kiev. He's going to hammer Ukraine. Its going to be extremely bloody because there are plenty of Ukrainians who are also spoiling for a fight. The Russians are terrible at the beginning of wars because they are slovenly. I don't see an endgame that ends up well unless Putin is driven from power somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, romad1 said: He's going to hammer Ukraine. Its going to be extremely bloody because there are plenty of Ukrainians who are also spoiling for a fight. The Russians are terrible at the beginning of wars because they are slovenly. I don't see an endgame that ends up well unless Putin is driven from power somehow. Yes, you have to wonder about the fighting trim/moral of the Russian army. Still conscripts right? And does that play well with high tech HW? The Chechens cut them to shreds. Putin supposedly has changed all that, but if the underlying sociology is still the same does a lot of new hardware fix it? Edited February 12, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: Yes, you have to wonder about the fighting trim/moral of the Russian army. Still conscripts right? And does that play well with high tech HW? The Chechens cut them to shreds. Putin supposedly has changed all that, but if the underlying sociology is still the same does a lot of new hardware fix it? It’s a mix: Professional 1/3, conscripts 1/3 and PMCs (private military contractors). Ukraine has a lot of the latter as well. The militias in Ukraine are similar to the US Civil War when rich men would raise regiments for their own vainglory. Edited February 12, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Yes, you have to wonder about the fighting trim/moral of the Russian army. Still conscripts right? And does that play well with high tech HW? The Chechens cut them to shreds. Putin supposedly has changed all that, but if the underlying sociology is still the same does a lot of new hardware fix it? They've updated significantly since Chechnya and have shown their improvement on the battlefield in Syria, Ukraine and Kazakhstan... Not world-beating competition... but they're no longer a struggling military power... This will be bloody with lots of death on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 IF, we are even listening to Putin about "historical Russia" THEN shouldn't East Prussia be returned to Germany? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Jake Sullivan gives off a young Dick Cheney vibe and I'm saying that's a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Following the letter of the OSCE agreements is important. We cannot allow Vladdie any wiggle room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Tulsi Gabbard being a Russia tool. Remember her? She was Foxnews favorite dem running in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 decent thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Just now, Motown Bombers said: Plus she has a mask! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Not going to lie, when I first saw the picture I thought she was a Trumper in the Michigan militia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Not going to lie, when I first saw the picture I thought she was a Trumper in the Michigan militia. If Canada was responsible for a genocide in our country and had imprisoned thousands of us for the bulk of the last century . . . all the American gun strokes would have anywhere near the reason to be as passionate as the Ukrainians have been... Hopefully it matters. Edited February 14, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: Not going to lie, when I first saw the picture I thought she was a Trumper in the Michigan militia. No... Way too much babushka in her... She looks just like my ex-Mother-in-Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 This is the sort of thing you had to expect. RT (note, the channel on your DirectV thanks to AT&T being oligarch friendly) is whipping up the home crowds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 So to clarify my nephew (AB Ranger) is NOT in Ukraine. My sister misunderstood him. He is at the border of Moldova in Colosova. They are processing people fleeing Ukraine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: So to clarify my nephew (AB Ranger) is NOT in Ukraine. My sister misunderstood him. He is at the border of Moldova in Colosova. They are processing people fleeing Ukraine. good deal. I have a feeling the people fleeing will be a flood shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Per Zelinsky, Russia is going to invade by Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Tigerbomb13 said: Per Zelinsky, Russia is going to invade by Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 Uh huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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