romad1 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, jz68 said: How does posting a video of a single engagement say anything about who is winning or losing the war? I could literally post 500 videos of Russian soldiers being taken out with drone dropped grenades. Would that prove the opposite of what you're saying? Besides, shouldn't you be putting all of your efforts into spinning the tape we all heard last night of Trump openly bragging about stealing classified documents and showing them off to people? The most important battle is fighting to keep Wagner and its allies within the Kremlin from killing dear leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 28 minutes ago, romad1 said: The most important battle is fighting to keep Wagner and its allies within the Kremlin from killing dear leader. The interesting question to me is how the funding worked. Does Prigozhin have any Putin-independent funding sources that would allow him to keep some number of Wagnerites on his payroll? For instance -is he pillaging blood diamonds in Aftrica or some such? That would make for an interesting dynamic. I've also read that Prigozhin paid his people a pretty hefty multiple over what Russia pays the regular army - might make Wagnerites reuctant to join MOD forces. Also waiting to see it Putin does the Stalinesque thing and just starts throwing any Wagnerites that return home into the Gulag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: The interesting question to me is how the funding worked. Does Prigozhin have any Putin-independent funding sources that would allow him to keep some number of Wagnerites on his payroll? For instance -is he pillaging blood diamonds in Aftrica or some such? That would make for an interesting dynamic. I've also read that Prigozhin paid his people a pretty hefty multiple over what Russia pays the regular army - might make Wagnerites reuctant to join MOD forces. Also waiting to see it Putin does the Stalinesque thing and just starts throwing any Wagnerites that return home into the Gulag. You've nailed a lot of it. Wagner troops do not want to subject themselves to the restrictions of MOD. They are pirates and freebooters who stand to make money off this war stuff when they get back to Africa and Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Where else can Prigozhin go (other than Belarus, where his life expectancy has to be <1yr) that he would not be in peril of being extradited to face US charges levied a few years ago? I’m guessing not every African nation has extradition treaties with the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 30 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Where else can Prigozhin go (other than Belarus, where his life expectancy has to be <1yr) that he would not be in peril of being extradited to face US charges levied a few years ago? I’m guessing not every African nation has extradition treaties with the US? The heel turn to join Ukraine is probably not an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 According to telegram sources which have been accurate in the past 152mm shells in Russian service. These are probably Chinese in origin either redirected from Syria or N. Korea. If accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 11 hours ago, smr-nj said: Where else can Prigozhin go (other than Belarus, where his life expectancy has to be <1yr) that he would not be in peril of being extradited to face US charges levied a few years ago? I’m guessing not every African nation has extradition treaties with the US? The mines which Wagner control bring in a massive amount of money. I’d guess a lot of Russian oligarchs finances would take a hit if Wagner disappeared. That would be a bad thing for Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 More coming out today about the depths of the mutiny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 21 hours ago, smr-nj said: Where else can Prigozhin go (other than Belarus, where his life expectancy has to be <1yr) that he would not be in peril of being extradited to face US charges levied a few years ago? I’m guessing not every African nation has extradition treaties with the US? I've seen various speculations that Lukashenko may have an idea that he can use Wagner to increase his own military credibility - either as added leverage to keep Putin at a distance or alternately to defend his own regime if Putin's regime does collapse and he find himself facing a revolt at home with a domestic army he can't trust and no Russian support. So there are scenarios one can spin where Lukashenko has an interest in defending Wagner and Prigozhin. But then you have to get to the practicalities of who's going to pay the bill? The Achilles heel for any private Army is need to pay the bills. Can Luka afford Wagner even if he has some idea of how he might use to his advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Symbolic tanks arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) Edited June 28, 2023 by digitalpigsmuggler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Pig Virus posting from another disinformation site no one believes lThe website was created in 2007 as a forum focused around conspiracy content such as UFOs and paranormal phenomena. In 2021, the website announced it would be operating exclusively as a news website. Currently, it presents itself as a news aggregator on its social media platforms and website Come on Piglet, try hardrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 On 6/27/2023 at 9:32 AM, jz68 said: How does posting a video of a single engagement say anything about who is winning or losing the war? I could literally post 500 videos of Russian soldiers being taken out with drone dropped grenades. Would that prove the opposite of what you're saying? Besides, shouldn't you be putting all of your efforts into spinning the tape we all heard last night of Trump openly bragging about stealing classified documents and showing them off to people? You're barking up the wrong tree. Pigsnuggler is from Special Military Operations. You need to speak to someone in Global Malign Influence Operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Oh hmmm Modern warfare in the nuclear power era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 One of Putin's doubles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I read this story on another platform yesterday. I'm more than a little bit interested in touring Ukraine with the family when the invaders are thrown out. This will make it more accessible. Imagine how it will be when they rebuild all the places that were destroyed by Putin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 hours ago, romad1 said: I read this story on another platform yesterday. I'm more than a little bit interested in touring Ukraine with the family when the invaders are thrown out. This will make it more accessible. Imagine how it will be when they rebuild all the places that were destroyed by Putin? There's going to be major construction projects/ reconstruction in Ukraine for at least the 10-15 years after Russia is kicked out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: There's going to be major construction projects/ reconstruction in Ukraine for at least the 10-15 years after Russia is kicked out... A good place to invest IF they have the ability to keep the corrupt Russian element at bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, romad1 said: A good place to invest IF they have the ability to keep the corrupt Russian element at bay. They're trying... Ironically, the invasion is making it really easy for Zelensky to make all sorts of moves on eliminating old Soviet-style corruption (currently malign Russian oligarchic ownership of businesses in Ukraine that is now easy to... eliminate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 24 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: They're trying... Ironically, the invasion is making it really easy for Zelensky to make all sorts of moves on eliminating old Soviet-style corruption (currently malign Russian oligarchic ownership of businesses in Ukraine that is now easy to... eliminate). I have seen a lot of arrests. They had a long way to go. But, they have the right recipe going now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 welp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, romad1 said: welp Tactically they need the f-16s on line more for the present tense. The long range stuff is great for making Crimea impossible for them to hold but that's more long term. I think the thing that would really turn this conflict most dramatically is a downed Tu-95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Oh, that's interesting And a good development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Tactically they need the f-16s on line more for the present tense. The long range stuff is great for making Crimea impossible for them to hold but that's more long term. I think the thing that would really turn this conflict most dramatically is a downed Tu-95 Deep battle is critical to winning wars. Fighting on the front lines only is for barbarians and others of the fighter class. You need wizards and other spell casters to win. (edit: that got to be a riff from my Dungeons and Dragons days) Edited June 29, 2023 by romad1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 6 hours ago, romad1 said: I have seen a lot of arrests. They had a long way to go. But, they have the right recipe going now. They are also doing this under marshal law and there are complaints that it's not just 'Russian elements' but rather some that are simply critical of Zelensky, albeit small complaints. Also I wouldn't so quickly assume everything bad and corrupt in that country was due to Russian influence and once they arrest those folks they'll be inundated with a surplus of completely honest brokers looking to lead Ukraine into the promised land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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