1984Echoes Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 23 minutes ago, romad1 said: Imagine being Putin's troll Cheerleading for Anti-American Russia is grotesque. And Trumpian. Maybe vacation plans to Trump Tower Moscow is in the offing...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: In other words: Give Ukraine their F-16's already... Milley: tanks, F-16s coming, but not in time for Ukraine offensive Quote America’s top military officer says training for Ukrainian forces on advanced U.S. Abrams tanks has started, but those those weapons crucial over the long term in trying to expel Russia from occupied territory will not be ready in time for Kyiv’s imminent counteroffensive. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/06/02/milley-tanks-f-16s-coming-but-not-in-time-for-ukraine-offensive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, digitalpigsmuggler said: Milley: tanks, F-16s coming, but not in time for Ukraine offensive https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/06/02/milley-tanks-f-16s-coming-but-not-in-time-for-ukraine-offensive/ story is a month old. UK pilots already training in Neth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Something I've wondered is just how far would the USA go to support Ukraine if Russia didn't have nuclear weapons? Would we go all in and give them everything in our arsenal, or would we still show restraint in the weapons we provided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 22 minutes ago, jz68 said: Something I've wondered is just how far would the USA go to support Ukraine if Russia didn't have nuclear weapons? Would we go all in and give them everything in our arsenal, or would we still show restraint in the weapons we provided? Russia is essentially a country you only want to invade on a rental not an ownership basis. The Crimean War was poorly run and a mess but they only tried to take the peninsula and didn't try to go any further so, that might well be the model. Having said that, If the US Air Force and Navy aviation as well as NATO airpower were involved in this conflict Ukraine would have reclaimed all its territory by now. Ukraine is resourceful and awesomely resolute...they lack the sophistication to use airpower like we would, and it would take a while to get them trained up to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Biden to Send Cluster Munitions, Banned by 120+ Countries, to Ukraine Quote President Joe Biden has approved sending U.S. cluster munitions to Ukraine, according to reports. The bombs are designed to explode in the air and release smaller submunitions over a large area. More than 120 countries have joined a convention banning the use of cluster munitions because of their high failure rates, leaving territories scattered with unexploded ordnance that can in turn pose a risk to civilians and friendly troops for decades after a conflict has ended. https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-to-send-cluster-munitions-banned-by-120-countries-to-ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Good, screw Russia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 i'm not sure how I feel about the cluster munitions. I hope if we gave them, Ukraine was fully briefed on how/where/ and what to expect with them. Assuming they take back the entirety of their country, they already will have a mine problem, this just exasperates the chances of livability of these lands in the near future. Definitely will help with trench warfare though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, ewsieg said: i'm not sure how I feel about the cluster munitions. I hope if we gave them, Ukraine was fully briefed on how/where/ and what to expect with them. Assuming they take back the entirety of their country, they already will have a mine problem, this just exasperates the chances of livability of these lands in the near future. Definitely will help with trench warfare though. I saw kids missing arms and legs in Iraq from cluster bombs. They would think it was a ration drop of candy or something, nasty stuff. Had to drop leaflets to villages to try to explain to stay away from them. They are still finding unexploded ordinances over there. IF true Biden probably released it because we have nothing better to do with it. Edited July 7, 2023 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 They are a terrible weapon, no doubt. The DoD spokesperson I heard mentioned that the specific type we are giving them has what is considered an acceptable rate of munitions that fail to explode (it was 2.x%) on impact. As opposed to some that have been used (by others?) with as high as 40%. I shudder to think of the unlucky ones that find one the 2% and how they won’t think it an acceptable level. But I also want the Russian war crimes to be end. War is hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I will be hopeful that Threads links post like twitter has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 These cluster munitions are an old stockpile that was sitting around collecting dust as the USA no longer uses them and hasn't since back in 2006. I'm sure Ukraine was briefed on what to expect with them so if they're willing to risk having to deal with unexploded bomblets on their land after the war ends, makes sense to clear out the inventory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Is it bazaar that I’m remembering Public Service Announcements here in the US during the 60s about munitions in fields admonishing kids not to touch bombs. I’m assuming around old NIKE sites Some great PSA’s from Willie Mays. Don’t touch them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Is it bazaar that I’m remembering Public Service Announcements here in the US during the 60s about munitions in fields admonishing kids not to touch bombs. I’m assuming around old NIKE sites Some great PSA’s from Willie Mays. Don’t touch them Never seen this before you mentioned it and am really wondering why there used to be so many blasting caps laying around that a PSA was needed? Edited July 7, 2023 by jz68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, jz68 said: Never seen this before you mentioned it and am really wondering why there used to be so many blasting caps laying around that a PSA was needed? Blasting caps….oh what an important part of my childhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Best news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, romad1 said: Best news Weird timing since Biden said today that Ukraine wasn't ready to become a member. He made the comment during an interview with Fareed Zakaria that'll be airing this weekend. Edited July 7, 2023 by jz68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 49 minutes ago, romad1 said: Best news Even better if he said: "We are voting for Sweden's membership in NATO today." Ukraine is going to take awhile to upgrade to NATO spec's, regardless of what Erdogan says. And both the US and NATO have already come out and stated that a country has a right to join NATO if it so desires... Erdogan's statement didn't say anything that hasn't already been said by NATO leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, jz68 said: Never seen this before you mentioned it and am really wondering why there used to be so many blasting caps laying around that a PSA was needed? A lot of construction sites evidently in the inner city. Blowing up old buildings to build new ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) Major hopes for NATO (in Vilnius) to establish current-times (and for the future) mutual security parameters across Europe, including industrial support complex, mutual cyber security, needed investments (struggling against EU finance ministers preferring "bread" to bullets), interoperability, etc...: https://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-task-vilnius-simple-transform-171724871.html Major hopes for me... All of the above... As well as... Sweden's admission into NATO. And Ukraine's pre-admission into NATO with a clear plan forward for their admission... including steps in which they've regained all of their territory but also a clear plan if they do NOT regain 100% of their territory. Regardless of whether they can accomplish that, I want a clear plan for admittance laid out for Ukraine. In my humble desire... Edited July 8, 2023 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 I am hopeful but not outright optimistic over this https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4083902-putins-fall-could-be-the-domino-that-topples-the-worlds-autocrats/ Basically, there are good people everywhere but there are also weak people everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 PS: And just to F with Russia... a plan laid out for Georgia's admittance (even if they never regain Abkhazia or South Ossetia), as well as an outreach program to Armenia and Azerbaijan to gauge their interest in joining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, romad1 said: I am hopeful but not outright optimistic over this https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4083902-putins-fall-could-be-the-domino-that-topples-the-worlds-autocrats/ Basically, there are good people everywhere but there are also weak people everywhere. Time will tell... But always hopeful. The flipside is that sometimes the population falls into a "popular" mood and elect complete and total jackasses into office, that end up destroying the country. Russia is the "now" example. But the one that resonates most distinctly to me is Venezuela. A booming economy and beautiful democracy that went populist and elected Hugo Chavez and then Nicholas Madura, both "populists", into office... who then, both, proceeded to completely and totally destroy the economy, democracy, freedoms, and (current and near) future of Venezuela. That's what Trumpians want to do to the United States of America: destroy it. Trump and his MAGA supporters can go **** themselves. Edited July 8, 2023 by 1984Echoes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Time will tell... But always hopeful. The flipside is that sometimes the population falls into a "popular" mood and elect complete and total jackasses into office, that end up destroying the country. Russia is the "now" example. But the one that resonates most distinctly to me is Venezuela. A booming economy and beautiful democracy that went populist and elected Hugo Chavez and then Nicholas Madura, both "populists", into office... who then, both, proceeded to completely and totally destroy the economy, democracy, freedoms, and (current and near) future of Venezuela. That's what Trumpians want to do to the United States of America: destroy it. Trump and his MAGA supporters can go **** themselves. And Chavez was a Cuban trained mischief maker. When the MAGAs set up the neighborhood watch programs to control crimes, you had better worry what they consider to be crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Putin is driving Russia's economy, and near-future prospects... right off a cliff... implosion imminent: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-cannibalizing-russias-economy-war-201500126.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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