Jim Cowan Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Helsinki was pathetic, he was this close to fondly caressing Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: So bending over and licking Putin's boots is now defined as "hawkish"? I'm confused. I was pretty certain Trump extorted Ukraine in an attempted slander at the opposing opposition party (specifically Biden). But I guess that is also called "hawkish" nowadays...? Can somebody help me with this? Because i don't get it. This can help you lead up from Obama into the first year of Trump's presidency: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/dont-rehabilitate-obama-on-russia/ This outlines all of his actions against Russia, but not his talk: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/ He loves Putin as a man, he loves all dictators as that's what he wants to be. Still, end of the day, for a host of possible ****ty reasons (my #1 guess being that he just doesn't want to put the work into becoming a dictator) he allowed his folks to act hawkish towards Russia, despite what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ewsieg said: He loves Putin as a man, he loves all dictators as that's what he wants to be. Still, end of the day, for a host of possible ****ty reasons (my #1 guess being that he just doesn't want to put the work into becoming a dictator) he allowed his folks to act hawkish towards Russia, despite what he said. It's true that Trump inherited a GOP foreign policy shop that was strongly anti-Russian. But his administration and the displacement of the old GOP with the new line MAGA party has largely put an end to the presence of those folks in high GOP circles. If Trump were to be re-elected we can count on a foreign policy being much more purely Trumpish/Tucker Carlsonesque and far less Tillersonesque or even Boltonesque Edited July 21, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: It's true that Trump inherited a GOP foreign policy shop that was strongly anti-Russian. But his administration and the displacement of the old GOP with the new line MAGA party has largely put an end to the presence of those folks in high GOP circles. If Trump were to be re-elected we can count on a foreign policy being much more purely Trumpish/Tucker Carlsonesque and far less Tillersonesque or even Boltonesque I'm certainly hoping we never find out, my point stands though, he was much more hawkish towards Russia than his rhetoric indicated. While I certainly won't argue your wrong, as I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, I also wouldn't be surprised if the rhetoric he provided differed from the administration that is doing what they think is best without him knowing/caring enough to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I seriously doubt that Trump 2.0 Secretary of State Mike Flynn and Secretary of Defense Kyle Rittenhouse and Director of the Fuhrer's Personal Bodyguard Erik Prince, will be soberly assessing the collective security requirements of the NATO alliance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 So, if Wagner invades Poland as Putin is threatening....can we send Carvana or Natures's Bounty into Kamchatcka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Ukraine Committed One Of Its Reserve Brigades to The Counteroffensive. It Quickly Lost Some Tanks. Quote The initial idea was for the lead brigades to probe for gaps in Russian defenses, and widen these gaps for follow-on brigades to exploit. Now we’ve observed what seems to be a formerly in-reserve brigade in action, and suffering losses, in Zaporizhzhia. The previously uncommitted 22nd Mechanized Brigade apparently abandoned a pair of its T-72-style tanks—an ex-Polish PT-91 and an ex-Czech T-72EA—during an assault in the southern oblast on or around July 9. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/07/20/ukraine-committed-one-of-its-reserve-brigades-to-the-counteroffensive-it-quickly-lost-some-tanks/?sh=5c7c7952165f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Counterpoint: Ukraine has retaken 180 sq. kilometers in the south and has retaken 30 sq. kilometers surrounding Bakhmut. Ukraine is on the verge of cutting off Russians in Bakhmut from retreat or resupply. Bakhmut. Putin's greatest victory in Ukraine over the past YEAR. Bakhmut. On the verge of 15,000 surrendering Russian military troops. Russian military performance under Vladimir Putin: What a ****ing humiliation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Counterpoint: Ukraine has retaken 180 sq. kilometers in the south and has retaken 30 sq. kilometers surrounding Bakhmut. Ukraine is on the verge of cutting off Russians in Bakhmut from retreat or resupply. Bakhmut. Putin's greatest victory in Ukraine over the past YEAR. Bakhmut. On the verge of 15,000 surrendering Russian military troops. Russian military performance under Vladimir Putin: What a ****ing humiliation. After Suffering Heavy Losses, Ukrainians Paused to Rethink Strategy Quote n the first two weeks of Ukraine’s grueling counteroffensive, as much as 20 percent of the weaponry it sent to the battlefield was damaged or destroyed, according to American and European officials. There has been no large scale breakthrough. Most numbers I have seen have it up to 30% and that was just the first month. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/15/us/politics/ukraine-leopards-bradleys-counteroffensive.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Probably this is hijinks and shenanigans from the Ukrainian services. Still, i am here for it if it comes to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 welp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 23 hours ago, ewsieg said: I heard an interview from Trump where he was forced to give specifics on just how he would end the war in 1 day. In a somewhat surprising (but maybe not so) twist, he says he'd call on Russia to take major concessions and if they refused, he would simply give Ukraine everything they wanted. I know everyone talked about him as Putin's puppet, but the administration was actually hawkish against Russia under him. I wonder if that kind of talk would have any effect on Russian decision makers. Reads like somebody is being won back … 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Reads like somebody is being won back … 😉 Yeah, he’s gonna forgive and forget all that sedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 31 minutes ago, romad1 said: Yeah, he’s gonna forgive and forget all that sedition. Yeah, well, who would you rather have as president? A guy who talks like a Queens stevedore, or a guy who's fallen off a bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 52 minutes ago, chasfh said: Yeah, well, who would you rather have as president? A guy who talks like a Queens stevedore, or a guy who's fallen off a bike? May I just add that , as a Bronx native, I abhor Queens & Staten Island accents. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Angry are the Polish. I just hope the Russian ambassador doesn't try to amuse them with jokes about changing light bulbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Saw a speculation that Prigozhin may have bought off Putin by volunteering to take his army to Belarus in order to sieze a corridor from Belarus to Kaliningrad. If you think the Poles are mad now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 I would love a backlash by Poland swarming through Belarus all the way to the Russian border... sweeping aside all fascist forces, and taking control of the country... Let Putin react to that. Oh, and BTW, with that... bye-bye Lukashenko and hello Democracy in Belarussia. Another new candidate for EU and NATO... Putin can cry in his pivo. And drown his sorrows with a shot of vodka or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Saw a speculation that Prigozhin may have bought off Putin by volunteering to take his army to Belarus in order to sieze a corridor from Belarus to Kaliningrad. If you think the Poles are mad now...... The Suwalki corridor. Yeah...it would be Art 5 and no amount of BS would protect Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-21-23/h_13683193b1ef7848f917d70d52cdea34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) Nothing Wagner has ever experienced in Africa or Ukraine could possibly have prepared them for fighting an enemy which has total air supremacy over their heads. Crazy people beginning to believe their own invented press clippings. Edited July 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Nothing Wagner has ever experienced in Africa or Ukraine could possibly have prepared them for fighting an enemy which has total air supremacy over their heads. Crazy people beginning to believe their own invented press clippings. Well, there was this one time in Syria...when they faced the US Air Force, Army aviation and a slew of MQ-9 Reaper drones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Just now, romad1 said: Well, there was this one time in Syria...when they faced the US Air Force, Army aviation and a slew of MQ-9 Reaper drones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham Oh, I missed this Just make that Oh HIMARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: I would love a backlash by Poland swarming through Belarus all the way to the Russian border... sweeping aside all fascist forces, and taking control of the country... Let Putin react to that. Oh, and BTW, with that... bye-bye Lukashenko and hello Democracy in Belarussia. Another new candidate for EU and NATO... Putin can cry in his pivo. And drown his sorrows with a shot of vodka or three. I remember grandiose thoughts during the Arab Spring as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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