romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, romad1 said: Not sure if I made this comment already. Zelensky is what many of us thought Rudy Giuliani was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: If so Xi is as crazy as Putin. Then again, when you share a long border with a crazy man you probably don't mind seeing his armor cut up on the other side of the continent either. Really wonder what Xi is thinking about all of this. We know the public facing statements, but internally, I wonder if there's a point where the negatives of looking the other way (if not allying) with Putin start to outweigh the positives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 This relates to the conclusion of Putin's nuclear deterrent order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, mtutiger said: Really wonder what Xi is thinking about all of this. We know the public facing statements, but internally, I wonder if there's a point where the negatives of looking the other way (if not allying) with Putin start to outweigh the positives. Going back to at least Deng, China's view has been that stability is of paramount importance in the world - both because they are afraid of being infected with internal chaos, and because it's bad for business. Xi is already somewhat an outlier to that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: Going back to at least Deng, China's view has been that stability is of paramount importance in the world - both because they are afraid of being infected with internal chaos, and because it's bad for business. Xi is already somewhat an outlier to that though. The average chinese with a confucion world view (sp?) wants to work and be the workshop of the World. Xi might not be the average person in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 I haven’t felt this concerned about the possibility of someone lobbing a nuke at us since the early 1980s. Shit’s getting more real by the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) she's not in a position to actually drive policy. She's regurgitating. I think this might be subject to a dynamic of the events on the ground. Edited February 27, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: I haven’t felt this concerned about the possibility of someone lobbing a nuke at us since the early 1980s. Shit’s getting more real by the day. So, a go-bag for those of us in the DC suburbs might be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 this all just goes to show that delusion always plays as big a part in Human activity as reality (as if anyone watching US politics in the last 10 yrs needs to be reminded of that....). The status quo ante in Ukraine wasn't costing a single Russian's life or putting any Russian's livelihood at risk, wasn't even costing Putin's buddies the odd Ruble, but the is world plunged into hot conflict over a fantasy about lines on maps in one man's fevered brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I was just telling a friend last night is this is when Putin gets really scary. He’s now isolated from a good chunk of the world, and the invasion has not been as easy as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 24 minutes ago, romad1 said: The average chinese with a confucion world view (sp?) wants to work and be the workshop of the World. Xi might not be the average person in China. The Russians would do well to take note of something Li Yuan recently said in a NYT piece: "to the Chinese state, everyone is a tool that serves a purpose until it does not." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Putin's comments this morning can be taken as an acknowledgement that this engagement is not going according to plan and that Russia very well could end up losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Putin's comments this morning can be taken as an acknowledgement that this engagement is not going according to plan and that Russia very well could end up losing. What did he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 38 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: I was just telling a friend last night is this is when Putin gets really scary. He’s now isolated from a good chunk of the world, and the invasion has not been as easy as expected. And he's losing all those $200 billions that he stashed away overseas: (Tim Rowland's a good writer from the Miami Herald, mostly opinion in here but it's a good, blunt, article about Putin): https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/story/opinion/2022/01/30/putin-predictable-child-whose-brother-getting-attention/9240556002/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: What did he say? He raised readiness of their deterrence forces (ie. Nukes). I dont think it will go in that direction, but he's threatening and wants the Ukranians/west to waver. Scary as it is, it telegraphs weakness. Not strength 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: He raised readiness of their deterrence forces (ie. Nukes). I dont think it will go in that direction, but he's threatening and wants the Ukranians/west to waver. Scary as it is, it telegraphs weakness. Not strength As you said, it seems to me to be a move based out of desperation and weakness, not a hand of strength. If you don't stop resisting I'm going to have to use nuclear weapons. So what, you're going to use nuclear weapons on the vary nation you believe is apart of Russia, with people whom you believe are Russian, and that you believe should be brought under the fold of Russia? I'm naive and ignorant on this outside of the media coverage, twitter feed, and pictures/videos I digest. But I would have to think if he really was wagging the nuclear dog seriously and approached the point of hitting the button, one of his own or many of them would remove him from power at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Midterm ads write themselves now. I know the average voter couldn't find Ukraine on a map and knows very little about what's going on, but it is our job to make them understand the gravity of the situation. Show clips of Ukraine being invaded, the destruction the war has caused on people over there, and then Trump talking about Putin being a genius as a voiceover while the destruction is showing and then "insert House Republican race here" to close out the ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 If anyone is interested at 1pm today at Hart Plaza there is a rally in support of Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 A history lesson for anyone wondering what all the fuss is about. This invasion is a HUGE deal and will have worldwide repercussions. For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter?” This is why Ukraine matters. It is the second-largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population of over 40 million - more than Poland ... Ukraine ranks: 🌐 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 🌐2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves; 🌐2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves); 🌐2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 🌐2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves; 🌐3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters) 🌐4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 🌐7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) Ukraine is an important agricultural country: 🌐1st in Europe in terms of arable land area; 🌐3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume); 🌐1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 🌐2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports; 🌐3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 🌐4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 🌐5th largest rye producer in the world; 🌐5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 🌐8th place in the world in wheat exports; 🌐9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs; 🌐16th place in the world in cheese exports. Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. Ukraine is an important industrialized country: 🌐1st in Europe in ammonia production; Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system; 🌐3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 🌐3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km); 🌐3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 🌐3rd largest iron exporter in the world 🌐4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 🌐4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; 🌐4th place in the world in clay exports 🌐4th place in the world in titanium exports 🌐8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 🌐9th place in the world in exports of defense industry products; 🌐10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons). Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: As you said, it seems to me to be a move based out of desperation and weakness, not a hand of strength. If you don't stop resisting I'm going to have to use nuclear weapons. So what, you're going to use nuclear weapons on the vary nation you believe is apart of Russia, with people whom you believe are Russian, and that you believe should be brought under the fold of Russia? I'm naive and ignorant on this outside of the media coverage, twitter feed, and pictures/videos I digest. But I would have to think if he really was wagging the nuclear dog seriously and approached the point of hitting the button, one of his own or many of them would remove him from power at that point. It's not just the people in the streets, It's people in the chain of command. Somebody would have to ultimately push that button. It's probably more saber rattling than anything else, but obviously it's very concerning nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: The Russians would do well to take note of something Li Yuan recently said in a NYT piece: "to the Chinese state, everyone is a tool that serves a purpose until it does not." Yep. A lot of Putin's fate lies in domestic internal politics, but it would seem that Xi has a lot of cards here... with how isolated Putin's government is, a move away from Russia by China would be the end of Putin Edited February 27, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 If I were a meglamaniac dictator with power over nuclear forces, I might be angry enough to try to rattle that saber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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