chasfh Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, romad1 said: not likely but definitely nauseating Stipulating that we both agree that this is unlikely, why do you think it is unlikely? Do you think it’s because Putin would never think of it? Or do you think it’s because Putin wouldn’t want Trump involved in the talks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, romad1 said: not likely but definitely nauseating I doubt Ukraine would agree to having talks under those conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Trump can't do anything so it doesnt' seem beneficial to me from Pootins angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, pfife said: Trump can't do anything so it doesnt' seem beneficial to me from Pootins angle The 'allies' technically aren't party to this conflict either. To the extent that there have been talks about ceasefires or ending conflict, it has happened between Russia, its proxy Belarus, and Ukraine. I doubt that will change. For Trump to act as a third party, Ukraine would have to agree to that. Which, knowing the history, I doubt they ever would agree to that (considering the first impeachment and the lack of trust emanating from that) Edited March 5, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: Stipulating that we both agree that this is unlikely, why do you think it is unlikely? Do you think it’s because Putin would never think of it? Or do you think it’s because Putin wouldn’t want Trump involved in the talks? Neither. It's unlikely because (A) The threat of nuclear war is both unacceptable, and unrealistic. Putin might just be that stupid... he's already threatened the west with nuclear weapons and may even be eager to test them out. But from the west's POV it's a non-starter. We don't negotiate with terrorists, or terrorist threats. Threaten, or actually use a nuclear weapon and all of Europe, U.S. & Canada, and even countries like Japan declare war against Russia. An actual World War. Maybe Putin has lost his mind and doesn't care anymore... but the response so far to his aggression means he has to understand that if he goes too far, the rest of the world is not going to just roll over for him. And a nuclear weapon is a bridge way, way too far... At least I hope he realizes that. (B) Trump? Are you F'ing kidding me? (This is not actually directed at you Chas but, rather, the expected response from the Biden Administration. Probably that... and a Ukrainian Go F Yourself too, just for good measure). There is no possible way they would place Trump in the same room as Putin, as Trump would sell him Alaska for $20 Billion and TWO Trump Towers. The Biden Administration's counterproposal: "Vlad, you get Hillary Clinton. She will be our lead negotiator. Dasvidanya." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, mtutiger said: The 'allies' technically aren't party to this conflict either. To the extent that there have been talks about ceasefires or ending conflict, it has happened between Russia, its proxy Belarus, and Ukraine. I doubt that will change. The allies are NATO which is a formal alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Spoke today to a friend/colleague in Yemen. Their situation is no less horrific and heartbreaking, yet the World basically doesn't care. If you happen to see Trevor Noah's take on this, it kind of puts it all in perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 The Allies may not technically be a party to the conflict, but we are practically a party to it, which counts just as much. I don’t think Putin would ask for Trump to be part of the Allies negotiating team because I don’t think he’s going to ask to sue for peace in the first place. Such a concession would be the ultimate weakness. He either wins, or he loses. No in-between. But: as revolting or nauseating the thought is, in the spirit of what if, if Putin did demand to talk to Trump and agreed to stop the shelling in order to do so, which could save tens of thousands of civilians lives, the Allies, including Ukraine, would have to seriously consider that. After all, we’d be talking tens of thousands of lives saved here. And if they did meet and, in a charade pre-arranged between them, Putin agreed to permanent cessation of hostilities as a result of those talks, Trump could be considered a hero as a result, albeit controversially. And to the degree that people in this very forum believe it’s a foregone conclusion Trump will be elected in 2024 anyway, something like a successful Putin-Trump peace summit would cement his landslide election here at home. Ick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Im not mad that Ukraine’s suffering isnt woke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 30 minutes ago, romad1 said: The allies are NATO which is a formal alliance. Fair enough. But ultimately the main stakeholder in this conflict is Ukraine... and in terms of where a negotiated ceasefire happens, who is involved on their behalf, etc., their word is gonna matter a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 just hearing about the Zelensky zoom meeting with US lawmakers. It sounds like a lot of enthusiasm for supporting. Zelensky asked for a no-fly zone. Not hearing if the lawmakers expressed any support for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 The notable item is the UAV. Russian UAV skills are weak CNN had video of the Mi-8 going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Oh my Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Oh my what kind of fool american would be in Russia right now? Did her team put her there? Sounds like daylight madness to me..... ....plays for a Russian team...../..sigh../ Edited March 5, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Apparently this happened prior to the invasion and she’s still in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Fair enough. But ultimately the main stakeholder in this conflict is Ukraine... and in terms of where a negotiated ceasefire happens, who is involved on their behalf, etc., their word is gonna matter a lot. Yes, Putin conducted negative stakeholder analysis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: what kind of fool american would be in Russia right now? Did her team put her there? Sounds like daylight madness to me..... ....plays for a Russian team...../..sigh../ Most female basketball players have to go to Europe to play during the WNBA offseason because they pay substantial salaries there. There are North Americans playing in the KHL as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kacie said: Most female basketball players have to go to Europe to play during the WNBA offseason because they pay substantial salaries there. There are North Americans playing in the KHL as well. Chris Chelios’s son played for China in the Olympics. He was allowed to do that because he played for the Chinese team in the KHL. Their rules allowed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 25 minutes ago, oblong said: Chris Chelios’s son played for China in the Olympics. He was allowed to do that because he played for the Chinese team in the KHL. Their rules allowed that. Right. He played for the KHL team because that's what he had to do to qualify to be a part of Team China. They didn't have a men's hockey program to speak of, but as the host country, they were given a spot in the pool. So China allowed the North American players to play for their team based on certain criteria in order to expose the game in their country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kacie said: Spoke today to a friend/colleague in Yemen. Their situation is no less horrific and heartbreaking, yet the World basically doesn't care. If you happen to see Trevor Noah's take on this, it kind of puts it all in perspective. if there was a case that Americans would buy regarding who the 'good guys' were in Yemen, it would be a 1st step. You have the Saudis, led by MBS, who has come to be pretty universally regarded as a dirt bag, fighting with proxies for Iran, of whom we are also such big fans. Biden has taken us off the Saudi bandwagon, which might at least reduce the arms supply in that mess. Edited March 5, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: if there was a case that Americans would buy regarding who the 'good guys' were in Yemen, it would be a 1st step. You have the Saudis, led by MBS, who has come to be pretty universally regarded as a dirt bag, fighting with proxies for Iran, of whom we are also such big fans. Biden has taken us off the Saudi bandwagon, which might at least reduce the arms supply in that mess. I would think the "good guys" needing help are the children being intentionally starved to death. But that's just my woke opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 O RLY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Kacie, i apologize for getting into a “whose suffering matters more” dialogue. It all sucks. Ukraine matters because its the 44m people economy trying to join EU and is in the bullseye of Putin. Yemen is the messy side of the messy side of the hot mess of the World. But the people in either place matter and the international community should hope that they give succor to all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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