Where Do Things End With Vlad? (h/t romad1)

[oblong]

Where do you rank these events in historical significance?  Is it bigger than 9/11?  I think so because of the delicacy of it.  Are we at 1991 levels when Gorbechev was in hiding?  Or 1962?  

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, romad1 said:

just hearing about the Zelensky zoom meeting with US lawmakers.  It sounds like a lot of enthusiasm for supporting.  Zelensky asked for a no-fly zone.   Not hearing if the lawmakers expressed any support for that.

 

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, oblong said:

Where do you rank these events in historical significance?  Is it bigger than 9/11?  I think so because of the delicacy of it.  Are we at 1991 levels when Gorbechev was in hiding?  Or 1962?  

This is so far nestled in between Invasion of Poland and Cuban Missile Crisis.

9/11 has turned out to be pretty much what I was filleted for saying about it at the time: a heinous criminal act blown way out of proportion, up to the level of state action, for political, military, and profit purposes.

I think COVID is/was bigger than 9/11. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by chasfh

[Tigeraholic1]

[chasfh]

Trump would have been strong with Putin.

 

[chasfh]

Cruz misspelled “Trump” and “Pence”.

 

[Archie]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Where do you rank these events in historical significance?  Is it bigger than 9/11?  I think so because of the delicacy of it.  Are we at 1991 levels when Gorbechev was in hiding?  Or 1962?  

This ranks right up there with 9/11 but probably not as big...yet.  9/11 was horrific attack on the US mainland.  RIght after many people around the world were expecting a nuclear strike in retaliation.  Fortunately George W. didn't lose his head and the nukes didn't happen.  Putin is painting himself in a corner with all the sanctions and I believe a nuclear strike on Ukraine, Europe or even the US is still a possibility.

[romad1]

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1500192565764763652?s=21

amazing

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, Kacie said:

I would think the "good guys" needing help are the children being intentionally starved to death.  But that's just my woke opinion.

but it's not necessarily easy even to do humanitarian aide without either getting you people killed or the aid being diverted. The world is actually pretty decent about doing straight up famine and hunger type relief when it's reasonably do-able. I have to assume NGOs can't do much in Yemen due to factors beyond their control?

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tigerbomb13]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Mastercard too

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Tigerbomb13

[mtutiger]

Visa/MC pulling out is probably right up there with the sanctions on the Russian Central Bank.... BFD

Edited March 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tigerbomb13]

The Russian economy is beyond fucked at this point. Good job, Vlad. 

[Kacie]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

Kacie, 

i apologize for getting into a “whose suffering matters more” dialogue.   

It all sucks.   

Ukraine matters because its the 44m people economy trying to join EU and is in the bullseye of Putin.  Yemen is the messy side of the messy side of the hot mess of the World.  

But the people in either place matter and the international community should hope that they give succor to all.  

It's cool.  For the record, I wasn't in any way trying to imply that the people of Ukraine don't matter.  Just that there are millions of others in insufferable situations and we should be as concerned about them as well.

Its about confronting my own biases as well.  Grew up in a very conservative household and drank the Kool Aid for many years.  The cops wouldn't shoot them black folks if they just cooperated.  If they just worked hard like we do and pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, they wouldn't be living with crime and poverty. We don't need affirmative action, they need to earn it like we did.  I'd like to think I've evolved over the years, but just when I think I have, I realize I still have a long way to go.  When I watched the Trevor Noah clip, my initial reaction was that it was more PC Bullshit.  Then after my conversation with my internet friend, I had to ask myself why does the Ukraine situation affect me differently than other equally horrific situations?  It's Putin, it's the economy, the threat of nuclear war, their heroic leader...maybe?  It's more likely that I'm relating to people who are more like me.  I'm not feeling for the people of Yemen or Afghanistan or Haiti, etc, as much because I'm not seeing myself in them.  I'm not relating on a human level.  I've been to Honduras on several occasions to provide services through a charitable organization and it lulled me into thinking that must mean I don't have biases or prejudices.  I'm honest enough to admit I do.  No, not everyone and everything is racist, but I need to do better and I don't think I'm the only one.

 

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

This is so far nestled in between Invasion of Poland and Cuban Missile Crisis.

9/11 has turned out to be pretty much what I was filleted for saying about it at the time: a heinous criminal act blown way out of proportion, up to the level of state action, for political, military, and profit purposes.

I think COVID is/was bigger than 9/11. 

Yeah, Covid has been the biggest "event" of my lifetime.  It changed so many things about the way we lived and did business and some of them will likely be permanent.  

[Tigerbomb13]

I don’t think it’s possible to even understand the magnitude of the negative effects this invasion is going to have in Russia. They can eventually overtake the Ukraine, but in between a depleted military and zero economy that’s toast, how long can this go on? The only thing Vlad is going to have left is his nukes. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

I don’t think it’s possible to even understand the magnitude of the negative effects this invasion is going to have in Russia. They can eventually overtake the Ukraine, but in between a depleted military and zero economy that’s toast, how long can this go on? The only thing Vlad is going to have left is his nukes. 

it will go on until one day 1,000,000 people show up in Red Square to say it won't go on any longer. That's the only way out I see. I know the conventional wisdom is that can't happen in today's Russia, but it seems it must.

[Tigerbomb13]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

it will go on until one day 1,000,000 people show up in Red Square to say it won't go on any longer. That's the only way out I see. I know the conventional wisdom is that can't happen in today's Russia, but it seems it must.

This is the most likely way this ends. Hopefully enough people can see that their livelihoods are ruined due to one man. 

[mtutiger]

27 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

I don’t think it’s possible to even understand the magnitude of the negative effects this invasion is going to have in Russia. They can eventually overtake the Ukraine, but in between a depleted military and zero economy that’s toast, how long can this go on? The only thing Vlad is going to have left is his nukes. 

Its similar to COVID/911 in how I view it, but what differentiates this situation is the range of theoretical outcomes... some bad and some better. On one hand, you have the prospect of a Russian win. On another hand, Ukraine could prevent Russia from achieving its objectives (seems likelier by the day) or even outright winning. All the while the dictator saber rattles about nuclear weapons (which I dont think will happen, but is unsettling regardless).

Incidentally, that range of outcomes exposes flaws in the standard right wing partisan line (ie. This wouldn't be happening if Trump were POTUS)... namely, if the dictator ends up falling, is that really an argument in Trump's favor? 

Edited March 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

One thing I've been thinking about is what happens if there ends up being a jailbreak on Lukashenko in Belarus.... there have been suggestions that Belarusian troops should have entered into Ukraine by now but that there's resistance.

Keep in mind that Luka likely lost by a significant margin in 2020 and only held onto power through his repressive security services and with the help of Russia. In other words, there's probably a lot of dissension under the surface and his grip on power is tenuous, moreso than Putin's 

If a conflagration were to occur there, it stands to reason that would force Russia to have their attention divided even further.

Edited March 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

 

[chasfh]

No proof, but …

 

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[Tigerbomb13]

Have fun occupying this country, Vlad 

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, mtutiger said:

The 'allies' technically aren't party to this conflict either. To the extent that there have been talks about ceasefires or ending conflict, it has happened between Russia, its proxy Belarus, and Ukraine. I doubt that will change...

Here's the instance in which it will change, and NATO will become involved:

Pictures of dead Ukrainian children get out into the world. The World, the United Nations, NATO, the United States of America become outraged at Putin's genocide against the Ukrainian peoples, civilians, women & children.

Multiple countries demand an immediate cessation of hostilities and a withdrawal of Russian forces back to pre-2022 locations; otherwise a declaration of war against Russia, by the UK, Poland, Romania, Norway, Germany, and France. Uncertain on Canada, but the U.S. will join them although... there's always Congress to get through.