Where Do Things End With Vlad? (h/t romad1)

[romad1]

 

Insert gif of Zelensky dressed as Michael Corleone

[oblong]

11 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Oh rrly

[insert Michael Corleone gif "my offer is this: . . ."

The best scene in the whole damn trilogy other than the Michael/Vito garden scene.  maybe I could say best scene written by Puzo/Coppola since Robert Townes wrote the garden scene. 

 

 

[Motown Bombers]

CEO of my company is talking about how much the company supports Ukraine. Failed to mention the thousands of dollars the company donated to politicians after they failed to hold Trump accountable for extorting Ukraine. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[oblong]

Vista?  Forgot all about that.  That was like Windows ME, some bastard stepchild that somehow made something bad worse.

 

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

hey, those old Lenovo's were money. They don't die. I still have a T420 (~2010 ) that's set up as a music server. 

[1984Echoes]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:41 AM, 1984Echoes said:

I've long thought... but specifically after Putin invaded and took Crimea...

 

That the solution to Ukraine's/ Russia's/ and NATO's "Ukraine Problem" is for Ukraine to declare Permanent Neutrality.

Putin would immediately (or close to it): celebrate, offer to double the transit-gas through Ukraine, back out of the Donbass, would never give up Crimea however would offer free port visitation/ usage to Ukraine's Navy or Coast Guard in exchange for energy & other supplies to Crimea... Russia would gain: their desire for a "buffer zone" between NATO and Russia, or, from their perspective, a non-threatening neighbor.

Ukraine would gain: An immediate back off from Putin, a permanent (or as close to it as one can get) reduction in Russian hostilities against Ukraine, their manufacturing region back (intensively located in Lugansk & Donetsk provinces or... the Donbass), other benefits from Russia (as noted above).

Ukraine also could still: arm themselves to the teeth (with conventional weapons) with anti-tank and drone weaponry (anti-Russian materials mostly) while still maintaining neutrality, work with NATO forces in joint "project" work that is non-threatening to Russia, work intensively with the European Union economically, etc...

NATO promised Ukraine they could "one day" join NATO. They would gain with Ukraine's Permanent Neutrality status... a face-saving way out of that, and a "silent partner" as they would still work with Ukraine, maybe even extensively... just without the Article 5.

Ukraine loses the Article 5 commitment. But I think Neutrality gains them far more then joining NATO does... just my 2 cents.

Good article on current tensions:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-says-yes-ukraine-no-130900960.html

This has always been the correct solution.

Russia straight up has demanded this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html

[romad1]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

This has always been the correct solution.

Russia straight up has demanded this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html

Before Putin came in and wrecked the country....maybe.  I doubt that would be a winning election platform at this point. 

[1984Echoes]

8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

This has always been the correct solution.

Russia straight up has demanded this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html

Let me rephrase that:

That was always the correct solution from Russia's perspective.

Putin is losing this war. Zelensky is fully willing to hold out and not give up the possibility of NATO inclusion, and I'm going to guess wants the Donbass back. At this point, I think he should. He could probably negotiate for Crimea too but that will go nowhere as there is no possibility in hell that Russia ever gives that up. It just won't happen.

But... Putin is losing bargaining power every day his forces are bogged down and losing men & equipment in Ukraine. I hope he doesn't do something drastic to get back his bargaining power. It's the women and children who will suffer if he escalates.

Edited March 7, 2022 by 1984Echoes

[1984Echoes]

6 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Before Putin came in and wrecked the country....maybe.  I doubt that would be a winning election platform at this point. 

Yeah, I was just answering that... at the same time you posted...

[gehringer_2]

as always, when the Russians screw up, the long term danger is the West decides to overplay its hand and regrets it later. There is a huge emotional need to be punitive to Russia right now, and deservedly so, but the West's has to remember their fight is not in the main with the Russian populace. Revenge that goes beyond Putin is not a long term win.

[romad1]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

as always, when the Russians screw up, the long term danger is the West decides to overplay its hand and regrets it later. There is a huge emotional need to be punitive to Russia right now, and deservedly so, but the West's has to remember their fight is not in the main with the Russian populace. Revenge that goes beyond Putin is not a long term win.

seems rational.   They need to feel the pain of these sanctions though.  

[romad1]

19 minutes ago, romad1 said:

seems rational.   They need to feel the pain of these sanctions though.  

but rather than worry about them

 

[romad1]

This is stupid as f

 

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

seems rational.   They need to feel the pain of these sanctions though.  

At least until they wise up and dump Putin.

Can they at least frickin' figure out that choosing the path of fascism is not a winning hand?

Quit with the KGB/ FSB/ USSR methods, just build your country's democracy, rule of law, business freedoms (once had under Putin's rule but eliminated at least 15 years ago) and starting treating your neighbors & partners with handshakes instead of threats and billy clubs. You'll (Russia) get farther as a friend than as a fascist.

When will they ever realize this? It ain't that difficult.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

At least until they wise up and dump Putin.

Can they at least frickin' figure out that choosing the path of fascism is not a winning hand?

Quit with the KGB/ FSB/ USSR methods, just build your country's democracy, rule of law, business freedoms (once had under Putin's rule but eliminated at least 15 years ago) and starting treating your neighbors & partners with handshakes instead of threats and billy clubs. You'll (Russia) get farther as a friend than as a fascist.

When will they ever realize this? It ain't that difficult.

You can't accumulate power in too few hands.  Its a lesson for this country as well. 

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

Before Putin came in and wrecked the country....maybe.  I doubt that would be a winning election platform at this point. 

If you could squint, you could see freedom to associate with EU/NATO being a solid trade in exchange for Crimea.... but in terms of Russia issuing dictates? Hard to see that ever being acceptable to Ukraine given Russian aggression.

Edited March 7, 2022 by mtutiger

[romad1]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

If you could squint, you could see freedom to associate with EU/NATO being a solid trade in exchange for Crimea.... but in terms of Russia issuing dictates? Hard to see that ever being acceptable to Ukraine given Russian aggression.

It would be like 1948 Israel having diplomatic relations with 1943 Nazi Germany

Or a freely elected Polish government in 1945 having diplomatic relations with 1945 Soviet government (1939 invasion, Katyn massacre, Warsaw Uprising pause) 

[romad1]

Or for that matter a freely elected Ukrainian government at any point after the Holodomor having diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union 

[romad1]

This is some Terminator Sarah Connor level stuff here. 

[1984Echoes]

24 minutes ago, romad1 said:

This is some Terminator Sarah Connor level stuff here. 

Right below that is a comment and a link on an 11 year old boy who travelled (his parents had to stay so they sent him on this journey) by himself from Zaporijzhya to Slovakia (over 1,000 kilometers) with a backpack and a contact number written on the back of his hand.

Of course he had to have had some help on the way... But can you imagine?

 

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

This is stupid as f

 

A saw a meme where it showed a picture of the Kyiz Convoy and a couple of A-10's with captions like "Oooh, that looks good" and "I'd so hit that."  Kind of funny, but it's just a joke.  With the full support of the rest of the US forces, yes, the A-10's would have a field day, but especially when you see the Russian issues with logistics, you'd think our leaders wouldn't say such definitive statements understanding that it's not always as simple as seeing tanks and assuming all we have to do is give Ukraine something that attacks tanks.

[ewsieg]

Another thing that might be stupid as well, but note i'm just asking and i'm a peon, but, how much different is it to learn different drone's? 

That seems like that might be something that could assist Ukrainian's quicker on the battlefield, but i'm sure that would still take some time.  Maybe with that though, you pull some Ukrainian drone tech's over into Poland for "training".  

[mtutiger]

To the discussion earlier about negotiating a settlement, thought provoking thread.

The amount of bad faith that Russia has built with their invasion will make any settlement thorny, one would imagine.