Tigers Hire Scott Harris as President of Baseball Operations

[Tenacious D]

Constants for next years lineup (barring any my trades):

C-Haase, Rogers

1B-Tork

2B-Schoop

SS-Baez

CF-Greene

DH-Cabrera

Meadows is under contract, but given his mental health challenges, can’t be counted on.

Baez could move to 2B, with Schoop moving to 3B or UT role, depending on other moves.

Would be shocked to see Candy or Barnhart brought back. Reyes and the Castro boys are less likely.  Doubt we’d count on Kreidler, Clemens, Baddoo or Carpenter to be significant contributors.

I believe Harris will focus on SS, LF and 3B, in that order.

[Tigermojo]

Candy and Schoop have been disappointing but both have career low BABIP this year. I think they will both bounce back as 2 to 4 win players next year. Then trade both at the deadline because neither of them will be part of the future non-Miggy teams.

Tork and Willi are the next lowest in BABIP. Tork is the first baseman for the future and I think Willi will be ok on the bench.

Harold will need to hit the road along with some of the older pitchers like Hutchison.

I like the young outfielders but I understand they haven't proven themselves yet. I could see a veteran addition there.

I like Haase and Rogers. I think Haase has played well enough to give Rogers a chance and if he fails, they could look for veteran help midseason.

I agree the rotation is probably the biggest need for outside help. We need reliable innings while the kids stretch out at AAA and remain available in case of injuries.

[Edman85]

I think you all aren't foreseeing the paradigm shift in roster building.

I think the Tigers will be scouring the waiver wire, trying to accumulate as many players as possible, and hoping a few bust out while waiting on the farm.

Players will be acquired if they are a value. The days of "We need a catcher. Let's get Tucker Barnhart, mission accomplished" are likely over.

[Tenacious D]

43 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I think you all aren't foreseeing the paradigm shift in roster building.

I think the Tigers will be scouring the waiver wire, trying to accumulate as many players as possible, and hoping a few bust out while waiting on the farm.

Players will be acquired if they are a value. The days of "We need a catcher. Let's get Tucker Barnhart, mission accomplished" are likely over.

So, dumpster diving?  Who is on the farm that we’re waiting for?  Jung, Keith, maybe Meadows?  Are you suggesting this likelihood because we have few tradable assets (which I don’t disagree with)?  That’s why I like bailing teams like the Padres and Yankees out of some shitty contracts with some of their better prospects.  Yankees SS situation, as someone previously brought up, is a prime example.

[1984Echoes]

5 hours ago, casimir said:

This is rich coming from someone thinking that Daz Cameron has a future with the Tigers.

As a 4th or 5th OF'er, sure, why not...?

Actually, I can answer that too... I've lost faith in him. He's been given enough chances... I'm looking elsewhere at this point...

But getting back to the "rich" comment... so you think it's "rich" that I don't believe Melendez is worth trading Greene or Tork for him? Well then kindly explain your logic on why we should trade Greene or Tork for Melendez. I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning.

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, sabretooth said:

Well its not "people" that are saying this...one person.

One person is saying what, exactly?

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

So, dumpster diving?  Who is on the farm that we’re waiting for?  Jung, Keith, maybe Meadows?  Are you suggesting this likelihood because we have few tradable assets (which I don’t disagree with)?  That’s why I like bailing teams like the Padres and Yankees out of some shitty contracts with some of their better prospects. Yankees SS situation, as someone previously brought up, is a prime example.

 

That's also why I think the team holds onto Harold, Candy, Reyes, etc...

Until they get pushed out the door, they should still be on the team as placeholders, at the very least. When a better option presents itself... then you move on from these guys.

Just my opinion.

[HeyAbbott]

If I were Harris, I'd be looking for a new OF. a SS, and a 3B as suggested earlier. I would also be getting rid of the dead wood on the 40 man. Maybe all of the pruning need not take place immediately, but expeditiously.

[gehringer_2]

I don't see any likely scenario where Baez is not the SS next season. Schoop 50/50 to be gone, Cadelario 70/30 to be gone. Cabrera bought out. Minimal starting point for any climb back.

Edited September 24, 2022 by gehringer_2

[sabretooth]

14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't see any likely scenario where Baez is not the SS next season. Schoop 50/50 to be gone, Cadelario 70/30 to be gone. Cabrera bought out. Minimal starting point for any climb back.

I hope they consider shifting him to 2b

[sabretooth]

My sense of what a "stand pat" 2023 would look like in terms of WAR by starter at each position, plus the bench, SPs, and RPs, as a group:

BASELINE

Catcher: 2 (Haase and Rogers combined)

1b: Tork 2

2b: Schoop: 1

Ss: Baez: 2

3b: Candy or Kreidler: 0

Lf: Carpenter 2

Cf: Greene 2

Rf: Reyes 0

Dh: Meadows 1

Bench: 0

SP: 5 (ERod 1.5, Manning 1.5, the rest: 2)

RP: 5

Total BASELINE: 22 (70 wins)

REASONABLE HOPES:

Tork and Greene at 3 each (add 2)

ERod and/or Manning a little better (add 1)

Other SP (Wentz, Skubal, Turnbull) are healthy and reasonably productive (add 3)

So if things go healthy and well we could be looking at 76 wins.

Add a good hitter and a good SP and hope for .500.  Add a good hitter and 2 good SP and I think you've got a very reasonable shot at a .500.

If injuries mount again then all bets are off.

If as someone suggested that Candy and or Schoop and or Meadows bounces back to 2021 levels that could stand in for the new good hitter.  That seems very hopeful, but possible.

[sabretooth]

I dont see a winner forming out of this roster and minor leagues, certainly not for the next two years, but I dont expect this group to suck like 2022 again either.

[mtutiger]

16 hours ago, sabretooth said:

If they want to have any chance to have a winning record in the next two years, they are going to need to add one very good starting pitcher from the outside and another at least average SP.

Pitching is the one area where Harris can leverage his second core plank as he explained in his presser... This org has shown enough to suggest that guys can come here and improve under the Fetter and the pitching dept.

I don't think they are getting multiple new starters, but one would be good - particularly if there's another Carlos Rodon type who can be signed for a shorter length

Edited September 25, 2022 by mtutiger

[casimir]

16 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

As a 4th or 5th OF'er, sure, why not...?

Its OK to expect much more out of a 4th or 5th OF than what Cameron projects to be.  Hell, he's a 4th or 5th OF for Toledo based on his statistics there.

[sabretooth]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Pitching is the one area where Harris can leverage his second core plank as he explained in his presser... This org has shown enough to suggest that guys can come here and improve under the Fetter and the pitching dept.

I don't think they are getting multiple new starters, but one would be good - particularly if there's another Carlos Rodon type who can be signed for a shorter length

I agree that they arent going to fill more than one or maybe two holes with FAs this off season. 

At some point they're gonna have to get realistic and acquire experienced/high level SPs.  **Every single team** that wins consistently + makes the playoffs fairly consistently acquires all-star level pitching from the outside in the building phase, either through trades or FA. 

I am not saying that you are saying this, but there is this wrong-headed idea around here that seems to persist that you plug in the FAs or make the big trade once everything else (drafting and development) has been fully realized on the field. 

The good GMs turn it around by pushing all of the buttons (drafting, development, trades, FA) within a relatively short time frame, and there is no set sequence.  Every situation requires its own sequencing.

Here I think we have enough in-house talent on the 40 man roster to win 70-75 games barring another injury bonanza.  With Miggys ridonculous contract gone, and Schoop gone, we will be $50m under league average payroll.  We have a basically hands-off owner, who I think could and should be convinced by a decent, intelligent and trustworthy GM to provide an average payroll, and to make the trades and FA signings necessary to put a winning team on the field in 2024, **and** to put all of the cool analytical toys and resources that Chris has paid for to their best use to build a consistent winner.

Obviously Avila was not the GM Chris needed.  Harris seems like he's got the pedigree and smarts to make this work.  

Another thing hopefully in our favor is the recent phenomenon of collapsing profits on regional cable deals by Bally.   

If Chris no longer believes that he can make money by standing still and raking in Bally dollars, then that will tie his profits more definitively to putting a good product on the field, and that would be a VERY good thing for us as fans.

Edited September 25, 2022 by sabretooth

[sabretooth]

6 minutes ago, casimir said:

Its OK to expect much more out of a 4th or 5th OF than what Cameron projects to be.  Hell, he's a 4th or 5th OF for Toledo based on his statistics there.

I actually liked Daz as a 4th OF and was surprised when they dropped him.  But he was never gonna be Denard Span.

[Tenacious D]

18 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I actually liked Daz as a 4th OF and was surprised when they dropped him.  But he was never gonna be Denard Span.

Demoted him?  He’s still in the mix.  I’d rather have him as our 4th OF, instead of Reyes.

[chasfh]

56 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I agree that they arent going to fill more than one or maybe two holes with FAs this off season. 

At some point they're gonna have to get realistic and acquire experienced/high level SPs.  **Every single team** that wins consistently + makes the playoffs fairly consistently acquires all-star level pitching from the outside in the building phase, either through trades or FA. 

I am not saying that you are saying this, but there is this wrong-headed idea around here that seems to persist that you plug in the FAs or make the big trade once everything else (drafting and development) has been fully realized on the field. 

The good GMs turn it around by pushing all of the buttons (drafting, development, trades, FA) within a relatively short time frame, and there is no set sequence.  Every situation requires its own sequencing.

Here I think we have enough in-house talent on the 40 man roster to win 70-75 games barring another injury bonanza.  With Miggys ridonculous contract gone, and Schoop gone, we will be $50m under league average payroll.  We have a basically hands-off owner, who I think could and should be convinced by a decent, intelligent and trustworthy GM to provide an average payroll, and to make the trades and FA signings necessary to put a winning team on the field in 2024, **and** to put all of the cool analytical toys and resources that Chris has paid for to their best use to build a consistent winner.

Obviously Avila was not the GM Chris needed.  Harris seems like he's got the pedigree and smarts to make this work.  

Another thing hopefully in our favor is the recent phenomenon of collapsing profits on regional cable deals by Bally.   

If Chris no longer believes that he can make money by standing still and raking in Bally dollars, then that will tie his profits more definitively to putting a good product on the field, and that would be a VERY good thing for us as fans.

Based on my understanding of the public information we all have, I agree with a few things in your post. For one, I agree that Baby Doc is a more hands-off owner than Pap Doc was, so he’s unlikely to force something silly like another 8/300 extension for Miggy. I also agree that obtaining impact free agents, as opposed to stopgap free agents, is something we can benefit from right away even if we believe this is not the year to contend. And I agree that even if they don’t make a move this winter, they can cobble together 70-75 wins assuming all the luck levels out on bouncing balls, injuries, and the like.

I don’t agree that Miggy’s contract will be bought out and that he’ll be given the gate. Not only will a significant portion of revenue-producing fans object to that, I think a lot of the players, the Latin players in particular, may take a bad message from him being basically banished from the clubhouse. They may not play him, but I do think they’ll find either roster spot or an IL spot for him which will keep him in the dugout during games. So I think we can plan on zero wins from him, as opposed to -1 or -2, in 2023.

As for who’s going to stay and who’s going to go … I need to think on that some. I think Brieske, Hill, Cisneros, Hutchinson, and Alexander might all be gone. Norris too, of course. On the bat side I see both Castros, Reyes, and of course, Tucker being shown the door. Maybe there will be more, I don’t know. But my impression of Scott Harris is that he will not be sparing when it comes to making decisions on who to cut and replace.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I actually liked Daz as a 4th OF and was surprised when they dropped him.  But he was never gonna be Denard Span.

 

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Demoted him?  He’s still in the mix.  I’d rather have him as our 4th OF, instead of Reyes.

In a toss between Reyes and Cameron as 4th OF..... what's behind door number 3?

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Demoted him?  He’s still in the mix.  I’d rather have him as our 4th OF, instead of Reyes.

Cameron can't hit RHP. Reyes is not good but he's not significantly weaker from either side.

[RatkoVarda]

they cannot wait until winter 2023 to pick up more starting caliber players; they must add this winter, preferably 2 guys by trade or free agency; any position but 1b can work. they should be able to get league average (hopefully more from Tork and Greene) production for very little money from C, 1B and CF for the next 3 years. I'm still bullish on Javy, preferably at 2b. But, except for Keith, they don't have starting caliber players coming up.

 

[SoCalTiger]

Is anybody worried about Tork ? I am bracing for disappointment myself but it's only based on a gut feeling. He seems so "robotic" at the plate and has not really hit good pitchers the second time around. Greene seems so so much better.

[Jim Cowan]

Looks like I am going to lose that $100 that I bet myself that Tork would be rookie of the year.

[sabretooth]

3 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Demoted him?  He’s still in the mix.  I’d rather have him as our 4th OF, instead of Reyes.

I wasnt sure if he was still in the org.  Good to hear.

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Is anybody worried about Tork ? I am bracing for disappointment myself but it's only based on a gut feeling. He seems so "robotic" at the plate and has not really hit good pitchers the second time around. Greene seems so so much better.

I'm anxious but in a good way.  I love what hes doing since he returned from AAA.