NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 34 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The Vikings average 11.0 PPG in the second half and the Lions 10.7 PPG in the second half which is more than the Eagles and Dolphins for example. How does that change the fact that they scored 0 second half TDs in the last 3 games and 3 points total? As I said, the defense is an obvious disaster but the offense has been a joke in the second half of the last 3 games and I think part of that is due to the opposition coaches making adjustments and the Lions coaches not countering. It's something worth noting when your offense only scores 3 points in 90 minutes of second half football/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, NYLion said: How does that change the fact that they scored 0 second half TDs in the last 3 games and 3 points total? As I said, the defense is an obvious disaster but the offense has been a joke in the second half of the last 3 games and I think part of that is due to the opposition coaches making adjustments and the Lions coaches not countering. It's something worth noting when your offense only scores 3 points in 90 minutes of second half football/ I think it's also worth noting, in the Miami game, that the Lions only got three offensive possessions. One drive had 20 yards of penalties that killed it, another got a sack, another a turnover on downs. The other two games they didn't score a TD in the first half either. Teams go through these stretches. The Vikings did. The Bills yesterday scored 27 points but only 3 in the 2nd half. It happens. At the end of the day, the Lions scored 27 points. That should be enough to win most games. I guess some people would feel better if 14 of those points came in the second half when they are down only to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 They have struggled the last few games because Swift and ASB have missed time. Plus Reynolds has been banged up. When healthy they are a top 10 offense. Which is a huge improvement over last year. The defense is not improving. Last years draft has only McNeil contributing, which is a problem. They have some decent players but so many gaping holes teams can pick them a part. This was always a two year rebuild. The offense is coming along fine, the defense needs work. On the front seven alone they have 3 rookies (Hutch, Paschel, Rodrigo), a second year guy (McNeil), a waiver wire castoff (Buggs), and replacement level LB from free agency. That is not going to cut it. And the secondary is worse. They have a lot of work to do but there are a few pieces in place on defense. If they don't improve next year it's time to question the leadership IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I think it's also worth noting, in the Miami game, that the Lions only got three offensive possessions. One drive had 20 yards of penalties that killed it, another got a sack, another a turnover on downs. The other two games they didn't score a TD in the first half either. Teams go through these stretches. The Vikings did. The Bills yesterday scored 27 points but only 3 in the 2nd half. It happens. At the end of the day, the Lions scored 27 points. That should be enough to win most games. I guess some people would feel better if 14 of those points came in the second half when they are down only to lose. Yeah, 3 possessions 3 points. Not good enough. In money time, the offense has been a disaster the last 2 weeks in particular. It doesn't mean that the defense isn't a bigger problem but the offense hasn't exactly been a solution either in recent weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 This seems worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP_Fan Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Just we are clear. The lions have not scored 3 points in the 2nd half of the last 3 games. They have scored 0 points. NE, Dallas and Miami all shutout the lions in the 2nd half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: This seems worse. How is that worse than the Rappaport tweet? This is a 2023 3rd compared to a 2023 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: This seems worse. deck chairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 We're a balanced tam in the 2nd half of most games....our defense can't stop anyone and the offense can't score. Incompetence abounds... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Are we in tank mode now for the #1 pick? Is that what this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Holmes get fleeced in the division too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 That’s all we can get? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 That’s a really impressive return for a contract-year TE. Good work by Holmes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, NYLion said: Can't see the Lions doing anything. Their only seemingly available guy with any value is Hockenson and I'd be shocked if he was dealt. “That sunna bitch NYLion, what does he know?!” - Brad Holmes 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said: That’s a really impressive return for a contract-year TE. Good work by Holmes. No its not. And to suggest it is dumb. They in theory gave up TJ for a late 2 to someone in division. When they need more good players not fewer Edited November 1, 2022 by KL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 minute ago, KL2 said: No its not. And to suggest it is dumb. They in theory gave up TJ for a late 2 to someone in division. When they need more good players not fewer Which of the following are you suggesting we should have done: re-signed him on a long-term top-five money deal, let him go for nothing, or gotten a 6th or 7th round pick? Just so I’m clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 minute ago, KL2 said: No its not. And to suggest it is dumb. They in theory gave up TJ for a late 2 to someone in division. When they need more good players not fewer Actually, it's worse than that. It's a late 2 for an early 4 and a late 3 for a conditional 4 so pretty meh all around. I think Holmes just wanted to get some value while he could for a player who wasn't featured in their offense and was due for a big pay day so I get the rationale even if the return was meager. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Interested to learn the terms of the conditional pick in 2024. Think it was smart to trade him but I would’ve preferred a return that included any additional picks rather than just moving up a few rounds, especially for a trade in the division. Edited November 1, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1) the league sees that hockenson is a slightly above average tight end. 2) if that's all we got for hockenson i might have advocated keeping him! we move up 50 or so spots in the draft? meh. 3) oh great. another second round pick! 4) we may need these picks to trade up for a qb this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: Which of the following are you suggesting we should have done: re-signed him on a long-term top-five money deal, let him go for nothing, or gotten a 6th or 7th round pick? Just so I’m clear. Keep him. We need good players we're not hurting for cap space so I don't know why we are worried about paying him his worth. And even if he doesn't resign the cap hit from franchising him is a $4 million increase. Seems worth it when the lions have $50 million in space. And the return, in the division, none the less is crap. We gave up two picks to get the 60th pick in the draft. neat a bust. At least without trading him you have two lottery tickets, a pro bowl tight end and two years to get some help. Now we have none of that and one lottery ticket. Fleeced Saying its a great all is just flat out silly. It wasn't by any stretch unless you think they are gonna draft a pro bowl TE at 60 which has about a .2 percent chance of happening. We didn't get better in the short or long term with the deal. Or do you think losing their only offensive weapon is an upgrade? Edited November 1, 2022 by KL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I think Hockenson will command something in the ballpark of 5 years / $60 million. I think this board would have lost their collective shit had news come out today of that extension rather than this trade. Hockenson isn’t a top-five TE. I think he’s better than league average, but I think a 2nd round CB or LB (like, an actual 2nd rounder not the Lions history of 2nd rounders) is more valuable that that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: Which of the following are you suggesting we should have done: re-signed him on a long-term top-five money deal, let him go for nothing, or gotten a 6th or 7th round pick? Just so I’m clear. The other option was to play the hand out a little further. Keep him and see if he could develop into an elite TE the rest of this season and next. They could try to trade him at the deadline next year too. Worst case, he walks in FA and maybe they get a compensatory pick down the road. Edited November 1, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Even if Hock is a top 5 TE unless he is elite there is little difference between the production you get from an average TE and above TE. The production difference is maybe 200 yards over the course of the season and that's being generous. In most cases you an sub in a plethora of average to below average guys and get within 10 yards in any given game of what you're gonna get with a non elite guy. There just simply isn't a ton of value in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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