2022 Preseason Thread

[slothfacekilla]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:26 AM, buddha said:

who does he knock out?

erne, smith, and sundkvist are the only choices really.

I'm fine with any of those three and it doesn't seem like Sunny is going to be ready to start the season anyways.  Hell I would try to move Suter or just even send Veleno back to the AHL.  If it were me I would figure out a way to get him in the lineup but that's just me.

Cossa got sent to the Griffins today, interested to see how he does.

[buddha]

everyone sent down whom we expected to be sent down.  

except elmer.

if sundviskt is out to start the season, elmer gets to stay on the big club.  if sundviskt is healthy, elmer goes down.

all the other youngsters on the bubble went down today.

[slothfacekilla]

I guess Sunny is skating now I thought he was out for a bit for some reason

[Hongbit]

I get it that everyone is excited about the young prospects.  What I find interesting about this team are the vets.    The 2nd line of Perron/Copp/Vrana will be huge.   Chariot and Maatta on defense are improvements.  The biggest one is how Husso will do in the net.   If he can emerge as a quality #1 every night then I think this team has a chance to be the surprise of the NHL this season.  

[slothfacekilla]

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-trim-roster-to-23/c-336231732

Soderblom and Veleno both make it

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-trim-roster-to-23/c-336231732

Soderblom and Veleno both make it

Veleno makes sense, it's sink or swim for him now - no point in him spending more time at GR. You'd rather know whether he can stick or not before the guys you sent down make their case to be brought back. I don't think Elmer even needs to do to that much scoring wise for them to be happy - just be really hard to play against. If Lalonde can get Ras and Soderblom both providing size with a hard edge, that should also open things up for Larkin's line in terms of match ups.

Edited October 10, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

I've been impressed with Elmer's speed down the ice.

That I believe, was the biggest knock on him, his overall speed... but the U.S. ice is smaller, and once he "pistons" his legs a few times, he's a runaway freight train cruising down the ice. The announcers were commenting on it Friday night, and you could see it. Maybe there are faster skaters out there... but I view it as less a liability on defense than I was led to believe as long as he plays it smart defensively. (PS: and keeps moving his skates like I've seen him do...).

The positives: that he's so agile on his skates in short areas, doesn't get knocked off the puck (what Ras has struggled with in previous years... he's improved there though, right?), his stick handling, reach, and creativity are off the charts, and he has the ability to get the puck into the net... demand that they find a spot for him. He could make the 3rd line dangerous depending on who else he shares that line with...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by 1984Echoes

[slothfacekilla]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Veleno makes sense, it's sink or swim for him now - no point in him spending more time at GR. You'd rather know whether he can stick or not before the guys you sent down make their case to be brought back. I don't think Elmer even needs to do to that much scoring wise for them to be happy - just be really hard to play against. If Lalonde can get Ras and Soderblom both providing size with a hard edge, that should also open things up for Larkin's line in terms of match ups.

Ya it seems like Veleno dominates the AHL a bit when he goes down so it is time to figure out if he's a NHLer or just a AAAA guy like Hirose.

[buddha]

it looks to me like veleno was playing much better in preseason.  he looked faster.  

elmer was playing with ras and sunkvist today.  is that the biggest line in hockey?  and the slowest?

zadina and veleno were "floaters" today moving between lines.

at this point id honestly rather see veleno center a 4th line than suter.

the wings now appear to have quality forward depth.  the defense will likely still need work.  that said, at the end of the day, they need raymond to keep developing into a true top of the league sniper.  their top line is just middle of the pack (or a bit below) right now and they need it to be better to compete with other top teams.  in truth, larkin is probably a second line center on a true cup contender.

[buddha]

35 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I've been impressed with Elmer's speed down the ice.

That I believe, was the biggest knock on him, his overall speed... but the U.S. ice is smaller, and once he "pistons" his legs a few times, he's a runaway freight train cruising down the ice. The announcers were commenting on it Friday night, and you could see it. Maybe there are faster skaters out there... but I view it as less a liability on defense than I was led to believe as long as he plays it smart defensively. (PS: and keeps moving his skates like I've seen him do...).

The positives: that he's so agile on his skates in short areas, doesn't get knocked off the puck (what Ras has struggled with in previous years... he's improved there though, right?), his stick handling, reach, and creativity are off the charts, and he has the ability to get the puck into the net... demand that they find a spot for him. He could make the 3rd line dangerous depending on who else he shares that line with...

 

 

 

 

i think elmer is slow for the nhl, ras too.  but he does have amazing reach.

[Hongbit]

Elmer’s biggest issue will be the same for every other young player in the league.  Adjusting to the speed of the game and being smart and responsible with the puck.  

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, buddha said:

in truth, larkin is probably a second line center on a true cup contender.

Larkin's strengths are his close in shooting but even moreso as a playmaker. We should get more out of him as the players on the ice with him improve.

I think Ras is fast enough at top speed. The question for guys his size is can you sustain the energy output to go at top speed enough of the time or at least learn to play smart enough to manage your energy output for the highest production. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

26 minutes ago, buddha said:

... in truth, larkin is probably a second line center on a true cup contender.

 

I've been wondering this. Is he better if surrounded by better talent, as G2 points out?

Or are we better off obtaining a true dominant #1 center and pushing Larkin to the 2nd line? Does Kasper develop into that...? Or is he just Larkin 2.0 and a better 2nd line center than first line? Where do we find/ obtain, or otherwise get this supposed superstar Centerman?

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

I've been wondering this. Is he better if surrounded by better talent, as G2 points out?

Or are we better off obtaining a true dominant #1 center and pushing Larkin to the 2nd line? Does Kasper develop into that...? Or is he just Larkin 2.0 and a better 2nd line center than first line? Where do we find/ obtain, or otherwise get this supposed superstar Centerman?

where do you get a superstar center?  you draft one at the top of the draft.  or, if youre the red wings of old, you find them stashed away in russia or sweden when no one else was looking.  you have to get lucky and have a top pick when there is a generational center at the top of the draft (like this year with bedard who is undoubtedly ticketed for chicago).  we havent had that kind of luck in a while and now everyone is looking in europe as much as us so we cant use that market advantage anymore.

or you could be toronto and have tavares fall into your laps cause he's a leafs fan.  any idea if mcdavid was a big russian five guy?

as sloth pointed out before, kasper looks like a potential zetterburg or larkin.  a top guy if he turns out to be zetterburg 2.0.

does larkin look better with better wingers?  of course.  every player looks better surrounded by better players, imo.  health has also been an issue for larkin.

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, buddha said:

where do you get a superstar center? 

That's not really the biggest impediment to winning though. You don't need one of the top two or three players in the league, just enough very good ones. Yzerman, Federov, Z, Datsyuk were never the premier player in the league in their time - maybe Lidstom was the best D man for a stretch. It's a team game. 

[Hongbit]

It won’t surprise me one bit to see Larkin take his game to another level with a new coach.   I think there is more there that Blashill wasn’t able to bring out. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Hongbit

[buddha]

15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

That's not really the biggest impediment to winning though. You don't need one of the top two or three players in the league, just enough very good ones. Yzerman, Federov, Z, Datsyuk were never the premier player in the league in their time - maybe Lidstom was the best D man for a stretch. It's a team game. 

i would argue that yzerman, federov, zetterburg and datsyuk were all some of the best players in the game at the time the wings won cups with them.

not connor mcdavid, but still exceptionally good hockey players.

 

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, buddha said:

i would argue that yzerman, federov, zetterburg and datsyuk were all some of the best players in the game at the time the wings won cups with them.

not connor mcdavid, but still exceptionally good hockey players.

 

LOL - I think that is what I said. My point was that you don't need the luck to score the #1/1 level "generational" pick player which is what had been cited. The highest draft pick on our SC teams was Yzerman at #4. We have ROY Seider staring us in the face picked #6. You can trade your way to a #6 easily enough....etc.

[buddha]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL - I think that is what I said. My point was that you don't need the luck to score the #1/1 level "generational" pick player which is what had been cited. The highest draft pick on our SC teams was Yzerman at #4. We have ROY Seider staring us in the face picked #6. You can trade your way to a #6 easily enough....etc.

yzerman, federov, datsyuk and lidstrom were all generational talents, imo.  

yzerman was past his prime by the time they won the cup, but by then he had turned himself into one of the best two way centers in the game.

the original question was how does a team get a superstar center.  those wings teams had yzerman and federov, both of whom would meet that criteria in my book.  so would zetterburg.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

yzerman, federov, datsyuk and lidstrom were all generational talents, imo.  

 

Detroit fan overrates home talent. News at 11.

They were all very good. Lidstrom *maybe* generational. The rest only if you consider every HOFer  'generational'. That's one take but it wouldn't be mine.

Edited October 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Detroit fan overrates home talent. News at 11.

They were all very good. Lidstrom *maybe* generational. The rest only if you consider every HOFer  'generational'. That's one take but it wouldn't be mine.

g2 misconstrues what i say and then argues about it so he can continue to make the same point over and over.  news at 11.

again, the original argument was how to get a superstar center.  i guess i have a broader definition of superstar than you do if you dont consider steve yzerman to have been a superstar.

if yzerman isnt a superstar, who is?

[gehringer_2]

 

Quote

 you have to get lucky and have a top pick when there is a generational center at the top of the draft (like this year with bedard who is undoubtedly ticketed for chicago).  

that is your quote that I dispute. Yzerman was  great player, he was not a generational one by my definition. How many scoring championships did he win for example? There were at least half a dozen guys as good as Steve when he played - Getzky obviously, but I'd have taken Messier, Forsberg, Sakic, Lemiuex, Fleury,  his own teammate Federov, all pretty much even up to Yzerman talent wise and that's after only 30 seconds thought. By my definition you can't have more than half a dozen 'generational' talents in the league at the same time. I would give you Mario and Gretzsky as 'generational' in Yzerman's era, the rest were the rest of the best. If you want to disagree on that definition - that's fine, but when you say 'a guy at the very top of the draft' like McDavid - that is closer to what you are talking about - not an Yzerman or Federov. You don't need the top pick in the draft to build a winning team in the NHL.

Heck, Edmonton has had the best player in the league for 7 yrs and while they are pretty good now, they haven't even won their division once with him.

Edited October 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

theo fleury?  give me a break.  yzerman had 5 straight years scoring over 100 points and five seasons of more than 50 goals, and two of those were over 60 goals.  

fleury never scored 50 and had 2 100 point seasons in his career.  

federov was more talented than yzerman, but i'll take yzerman over sergei just for the "want to".  yzerman had a much betger career than forsberg, equal to sakic, and different than messier.

i think youre really underrating yzerman.

youre right, i put in generational when i was talking about a superstar.  consider your nit picked.

 

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

i think youre really underrating yzerman

Nah - I loved me some StevieY in his day - I'm just admitting that at any given time there are a fair number of really good players in the NHL. I'm just arguing that having special luck (not that it's not nice to have.....) is not the only way to get some of them. You do need a heads up FO, and hopefully we have that now.

[lordstanley]

I'd like to see the Wings have at least two and ideally three players who, 5 years after being drafted, would go top 3 in a re-draft of their draft year. I think Seider is well on the way to that. Raymond has potential to do so. Beyond that we will have to see.