oblong Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Why do we play the NA before sporting events but not other forms of entertainment? I get it being played in international competitions, country vs country, etc. In that regard it can be seen as a theme song. But pro sports is a billion dollar commercial enterprise making a lot of people very rich... but hey, maybe that's what America's about. We don't play it before concerts or plays or movies. Why sports but not those? And spare me the "veteran of the game" things because that's not about saluting veterans. It's about the opportunity for Chevy or whoever to get a few minutes of commercial time. It's one of those things that for most people has always been done so it makes sense until you stop to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: I agree that it really doesn't mean as much as it should, although for a different reason: rather than becoming rote, it's become something akin to an American Idol spectacle, in which performers try to out-do every performance of it they've ever seen before, injecting every vocal flourish they've ever learned into it. It's seemingly no longer about solemn reverence for your country, or even the flag—it's about how entertaining the singer can make it, and how amped up they can get the crowd over it. This guy is a good example of what I mean. Get a load of how he hits "free" toward the end: and for national events like the Super Bowl or World Series, the anthem is a chance to promote an artist and record label. That's why they televise it then but not during regular season games. I mean... if it's about patriotism then they would show it on TV right? No. Bally (Sinclair, right wingers) need their ad dollars. To their credit Canada does show it which I like because they have a great anthem. But some complain now that it's woke. Look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, oblong said: And spare me the "veteran of the game" things because that's not about saluting veterans. It's about the opportunity for Chevy or whoever to get a few minutes of commercial time. As long as you've brought this one up, you'll enjoy this: https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2018/01/12/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Cubs-Boeing.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, oblong said: And spare me the "veteran of the game" things because that's not about saluting veterans. It's about the opportunity for Chevy or whoever to get a few minutes of commercial time. It's one of those things that for most people has always been done so it makes sense until you stop to think about it. Another one of my peeves. "Thank you for your service" to random people in uniform at airports, malls, etc. It's been said so often that it's become trite. I've also been told by many "higher ups" that many who served are uncomfortable about being thanked for what they feel was their duty. They would prefer a short conversation about where they served or what their duties were. Then I think a simple thank you might suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 21 minutes ago, chasfh said: It's a slap in the military's face to those people who believe it is the military that gives us our freedoms. I feel like you're projecting a bit. 21 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think it reflects in part an exercise in underdogging ("they hate us because we're patriots"), and in part fear and loathing of people they can't imagine even existing since the very idea of them is just so disgusting. The Anthem is a virtue signifier: express your love for it and you're a good patriot; express anything other than love for it and you obviously hate America. Odd, I see that here. I said years ago that at this point, outside of Candice Miller in a local role here in my district, i'm going to be a straight dem voter. I voted straight dem this last time around. I've exalted like most of you how horrible Trump is, but man, mention that Trump shouldn't be blamed for one thing, or say I don't agree with what a dem has done, obviously I love fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, ewsieg said: I feel like you're projecting a bit. Odd, I see that here. I said years ago that at this point, outside of Candice Miller in a local role here in my district, i'm going to be a straight dem voter. I voted straight dem this last time around. I've exalted like most of you how horrible Trump is, but man, mention that Trump shouldn't be blamed for one thing, or say I don't agree with what a dem has done, obviously I love fascism. I said exactly nothing about Trump or fascism in this sidebar, until this sentence. As for "projecting" ... I do not think it means what you think it means ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 It all depends on what the NA means to you. I view it the same as a moment of silence. I appreciate it when I am at a game and everyone is up moving and talking but as soon as NA starts most people stop take their hats off and respect the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: I said exactly nothing about Trump or fascism in this sidebar, until this sentence. As for "projecting" ... I do not think it means what you think it means ... Probably should have said stereotyping. My point is, if you're sympathetic to a cause, you will be more open to listening and understanding what someone does that is on your 'team'. I'm not terribly sympathetic to democratic causes, so I think I did the same when I read this statement from you. Quote It's a slap in the military's face to those people who believe it is the military that gives us our freedoms. Based on how my stereotypical view of most of you on this site, I read that as the only people that get offended are the idiots that think it's the military that gives us our freedoms. I can assure you, many people that are offended by those that sit, kneel, or refuse to come out for the National Anthem don't believe this. Personally I am offended by those that sit or refuse to come out, not kneel in part because even though I don't agree with Kaepernick, I appreciated the back story on why he began to kneel vs sit and I feel a lot of folks that follow Kaepernick understand that as well. So if they choose to sit or refuse to come out, to me that is a direct slap in the face of the military (as it was a military issue for Kaepernick which adjusted how he protested.) At the same time, it is their right to do it, so I try not to hold it against them which unfortunately so many others do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 52 minutes ago, chasfh said: It's a slap in the military's face to those people who believe it is the military that gives us our freedoms. How is that a slap? How do you know how military folks feel when you never served? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, oblong said: t's one of those things that for most people has always been done so it makes sense until you stop to think about it. It's not even much of an 'always.' As I have the story it started during WWII when the country was at all out war and there was a lot of question about whether the games should even be played and half the players had gone off to serve. War ended, the habit stuck but the underlying reasons were gone. At that point it did become mostly a 'commercial' exercise in several ways. So does someone want to claim the state of patriotism is any better today than it was in 1940 before the anthem was sung at games? Crimony - we have the leader of a major party talking about tossing the Constitution while wrapping himself in the flag. What kind of faux Patriotism does that represent? GMAFB. Edited December 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Trumpers respecting the national anthem Woke NBA who hates America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 33 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: It all depends on what the NA means to you. I view it the same as a moment of silence. I appreciate it when I am at a game and everyone is up moving and talking but as soon as NA starts most people stop take their hats off and respect the moment. I get it. And if we did that for games played on national holidays I'd be ok with it. But I think having a moment of silence every game for some named victims of the day would make it lose its significance. It's a tragic world and not hard to think of some reason to have one every day but you can't do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 34 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: How is that a slap? How do you know how military folks feel when you never served? How do you know Chicago is a uniquely dangerous city to live in when you've never lived here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: How do you know Chicago is a uniquely dangerous city to live in when you've never lived here? 🙋♂️ Google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 48 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: 🙋♂️ Google #20 … (but folks sure like to point to it like it’s a show stopper) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, smr-nj said: #20 … No denying it's a problem everywhere. Chicago is even shattering 25 year records. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-2021-homicides-final-20220103-lrpzuh5nsjhspmos3edrzxu2ei-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: 🙋♂️ Google Congressman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Congressman. Thats like saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". To a Christian thats derogatory, but it makes the non-religous person happy (See what I did there). 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Thats like saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". To a Christian thats derogatory, but it makes the non-religous person happy (See what I did there). 🤣 Not really, but at least we're having fun! Apropos of nothing: I've long wondered why non-Christians, i.e., Jews, Muslims, atheists, et al, don't consider celebrating Christmas as a secular holiday, which it is. Because if you think about it, you can see that Christmas is really two different holidays: a religious holiday for church and Jesus and creches and the like; and a secular holiday for parties and Santa and presents and trees and decorations and the like. As far as I can tell, neither has a thing to do with the other, although a lot of people do conflate them. (My personal favorite decoration is the nativity scene attended by Santa and his reindeer.) Logically speaking, "Merry Christmas" has way more to do with the secular than the religious, because being "merry" is much more akin to partying than praying. And even "A Charlie Brown Christmas" drew a very bright line between the vacuousness of secular Christmas and the spirituality of religious Christmas. (In Charles Schulz's opinion, anyway). Maybe non-Christians will come around to this idea sometime, and I hope they do, because secular Christmas could be a thing that unifies, if everyone can be cool with that idea. (I’m looking at you, evangelicals.) And if someone does try to dump a turd in the punch bowl by mentioning Jesus 300 times in a two-minute conversation during a secular Christmas celebration, well, we can simply relieve them of their drink and point them toward the nearest church. Edited December 9, 2022 by chasfh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 hours ago, CMRivdogs said: Another one of my peeves. "Thank you for your service" to random people in uniform at airports, malls, etc. It's been said so often that it's become trite. I've also been told by many "higher ups" that many who served are uncomfortable about being thanked for what they feel was their duty. They would prefer a short conversation about where they served or what their duties were. Then I think a simple thank you might suffice. That's me. I'm usually in the ... why are we talking about the decision I made when I was 18 stage of befuddlement when some never-served decides to bask in my patriotic glow. I remember how annoyed as shiz I would be during my drill weekends at Selfridge after active duty when i was an Air Reserve Tech... which is a full time State of Michigan employee who works at the base -- who also is a drilling Air National Guardsman. So, i'd work my full week of day or night shifts in the command post and then on drill weekend these buzzing bees of patriotic enthusiasm would roll in from their other worlds and try to shine the US Air Force's apple on their Friday Night/Saturday/Sunday morning drill weekends. Don't get me wrong. I definitely will bore my fellow vets and others with my lame stories. Its just those stories are not about how wonderful it all was to serve 'merica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, chasfh said: ... I've long wondered why non-Christians, i.e., Jews, Muslims, atheists, et al, don't consider celebrating Christmas as a secular holiday, which it is... I wouldn't go so far as to say secular... But if you wanted to dig deeper... It's not a Christian holiday, in the original. It was a massive pagan holiday centered around the winter solstice. The most famous name I can remember (in my studies) is the Feast of Mithras. Mithra, Roman god of the sun, was born on December 25h (Roman winter solstice). The celebration was on the date that literally was the last of the days shortening (going into darkness) and the beginning of days of lengthening/ getting brighter ("rebirth" of the life-giving sun). Jesus was not born on December 25th according to the bible ("shepherds were watching their flocks in the fields"). Which doesn't happen in winter. But in spring at the earliest. So Christmas is an untrue attempt to usurp and co-op a Pagan festival. It is not Christian, per se, but rather, Christian theft. In modern times, if we are speaking only thus: SOME Non-Christians I believe are celebrating Christmas exactly as you have outlined it. Modern pagans are celebrating it again as winter solstice celebrations, there are "Jews for Christmas" who celebrate it not as birth of Jesus but rather as the season of family, and giving... and my own personal experience is that of a Roman Catholic-in-training until the age of 10 (agnostic.) The training decidedly did not take as at the age of 11, I knew absolutely that it was all man-made myth-making/ story-telling with no basis in truth and so... I "saw the light" and became an absolute atheist at that age of 11... I celebrate "Christmas" secularly as family and the giving spirit (yes, presents... but I like the "spirit of giving" as much as gift-giving, which I try to downplay whenever I can). I'm certain a lot of non-Christian people think differently than that... I'm just saying I know of a definite existence of exactly what you stated... Edited December 9, 2022 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I wouldn't go so far as to say secular... What's the religious element to Santa Claus, the presents, the office parties, the decorations, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 There is no reason to take the right wing patriotism seriously until they separate themselves from Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: It was a massive pagan holiday centered around the winter solstice Right. Basically the three - Harvest, Spring and Winter Solstice celebrations go back in multiple places as far as anything you can call human farming culture. Hadn't heard the 'Mithras' title but "Saturnalia" is also a well known name of solstice celebrations from old Rome. No doubt that when Rome became Christian the easiest thing to do was re-appropriate existing cultural habits with new religious interpretations. The idea of the re-interpretation of old rites into new paradigms is as fundamental to practice in Christianity as the Passover->Easter connection. Edited December 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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