Biden's presidency

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's also the the larger demographic trend. The very center of the baby boom is exactly at retirement age so you have an unprecedented number of people leaving the labor force. On the other end the cost of child care drives more parents with small children out of the low wage workforce because the income trade off is not good enough. Higher wages won't do much to stem retirements, but they could pull more parents who are at home back into the workforce.

All good points.  In reference to your first point, I think a lot of boomers were hanging onto their jobs for a few more years before retiring, but Covid convinced them it wasn't worth it.    

[Tigeraholic1]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

All good points.  In reference to your first point, I think a lot of boomers were hanging onto their jobs for a few more years before retiring, but Covid convinced them it wasn't worth it.    

Back to my point that skilled trade is devasted by this. Kids these days don't want to put in the years as an apprentice. I see it alot, they expect 30 plus exp pay for little to know exp.

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Back to my point that skilled trade is devasted by this. Kids these days don't want to put in the years as an apprentice. I see it alot, they expect 30 plus exp pay for little to know exp.

I think that's the cycle of life!  Many of the boomers started out as anti-establishment hippies and then as they got older they realized they couldn't change the world and had to be part of the system to some extent in order to survive and they got more realistic.  It will happen again with the younger generations. I also think we knew there would be consequences of boomers returing en masse at some point and now we are seeing it, probaby sped up by Covid.     

[oblong]

Also treating service and other similar employees (like truck drivers) like garbage disuaded a lot of young people from those fields.  Truck Drivers in particular.  I mean.... who wouldn't want to be away from their family for weeks on end for $50K a year?   Yes we need them to function as a society delivering goods but the power is in the labor now. And truck drivers can often get screwed over by companies.  

You can make a good living in skilled trades, middle class definitely... but it takes a toll on your body too.  

[gehringer_2]

52 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Back to my point that skilled trade is devasted by this. Kids these days don't want to put in the years as an apprentice. I see it alot, they expect 30 plus exp pay for little to know exp.

It's more than the worker side however. Unlike say Germany, in the last 70 yrs the US has pretty much gotten out of the business of doing public vocational training. We have relied on industry to do their own, and for a long time that worked. But in the quest for ultimate ROI, American business has decided it's easier to steal skilled tradesmen from each other than spend the money to train them themselves - only to see them stolen by someone else. Net result is US trains a lot few tradesmen than it once did, thus perennial shortages. Of course the loss of defined benefit pension plans has also contributed to skilled workers' increasing willingness to move around as well. 

A lot of this kind of thing could be addressed if we had a politics that worked - we could do vocational ed again, incentives are out their make a company investment in workers lower risk. These are mostly not particularly partisan issues if properly framed. But there is usually at least on special interest that opposes whatever needs to be done. As long as the system is controlled by those willing to spend the most to protect the status quo on a political issue, we will continue to be unable to solve even simple problems.

Edited December 11, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

In my town a public school district closed one of the high schools. The district decided as a group to reopen it as university. Grades 9-12 no sports and depending on what field of study you will graduate with a two year state accredited college degree.

they also have apprenticeships for welding, pluming, hvac etc. You will work 1/2 days starting your jr year with local feeder company partnered with that field. 
 

it has been open 5 years. First class graduated 30ish now they are up to 100-150 and growing. 

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

True if there is meat on the bone. My wholesale business operates on a 10% margin because we are not the end user.  

Right. There are a few different ways to handle this and it's up to the business owner to make the call that's best for them.

Point being, it's not always as simple as, "I'm being forced by the government to pay higher wages, and no way I'm cutting my own comp, so I'll just raise prices to cover the wages increase so my customers pay for the whole bump, which sucks for them but hey, everything will work out nice and neat for me". For many businesses, there's a good chance that they wouldn't be able to pass all, or even some, of the wages increase on to their customers, who may simply flee to cheaper competitors, or buy less, or quit the product altogether. In that case the business would have to absorb at least some of the loss by having only a nominal price increase, or maybe even no increase at all, in a bid to maintain sales volume. #CapitalistBlues

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

In my town a public school district closed one of the high schools. The district decided as a group to reopen it as university. Grades 9-12 no sports and depending on what field of study you will graduate with a two year state accredited college degree.

they also have apprenticeships for welding, pluming, hvac etc. You will work 1/2 days starting your jr year with local feeder company partnered with that field. 
 

it has been open 5 years. First class graduated 30ish now they are up to 100-150 and growing. 

so you know just how much what you did was the exception to the rule. In some places community colleges are trying to fill this role, but they are generally pretty poorly supported.

[mtutiger]

6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's also the the larger demographic trend. The very center of the baby boom is exactly at retirement age so you have an unprecedented number of people leaving the labor force. 

This is a really good and undervalued point in this discussion... the baby boomers were already on the precipice of retirement age and the pandemic merely hastened the impact of their departure from the workforce.

This is especially true in my industry... I'd been hearing back to when I was in college about the amount of opportunities on the horizon by pursuing this career path because of looming retirements. And it hasn't disappointed.

6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

On the other end the cost of child care drives more parents with small children out of the low wage workforce because the income trade off is not good enough. Higher wages won't do much to stem retirements, but they could pull more parents who are at home back into the workforce.

Also a good point... one that we have learned since becoming single income parents. Raising kids are not cheap, but the income sacrifice between a caregiver remaining in the workforce versus staying at home with kids maybe aren't incentive enough to stay in the workforce anymore when you factor in the price of child care, not to mention the availability of it.

Edited December 11, 2021 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

A lot of this kind of thing could be addressed if we had a politics that worked - we could do vocational ed again, incentives are out their make a company investment in workers lower risk. These are mostly not particularly partisan issues if properly framed. But there is usually at least on special interest that opposes whatever needs to be done. As long as the system is controlled by those willing to spend the most to protect the status quo on a political issue, we will continue to be unable to solve even simple problems.

Yup.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

When people on the left say they want more Democrats to take a page out of the Bernie playbook when campaigning and politicking, this is what some of us are talking about. Bernie came to Battle Creek today and gave a speech in support of the striking Kellogg workers. Joe Biden should be in town doing the same thing. There's no reason Biden couldn't have come in, stood on the picket lines and made a show of it with a big speech. Where's that middle class kid from Scranton at right now?

If Democrats want to win back white working class voters, standing on the picket lines in support of them is a great place to start.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad

[pfife]

I remember ppl here saying "the left" loves Biden

 

[Motown Bombers]

Just one response to that tweet:

And this is why Democrats lose elections. They expected to get everything in one election and are now just going to give up. 

[Jim Cowan]

It's delusional to think that any "progressive" goals can be achieved with 50 Senators, 2 of whom are Manchin and Sinema.  AOC hurts her own cause by not acknowledging this, she looks silly.  Hey kids, if you want to achieve your goals, elect more Senators and stop whining.

While you are at it, tell Bernie Sanders that health care is the most centrist policy you could imagine.  It isn't "progressive" and it sure as heck isn't "democratic socialism", but he has a brand image to project and as a result you get farther away from achieving goals that he shouts about.

[pfife]

I think that's exactly what Bernie argues, that his stuff isn't extreme whatsoever

[Jim Cowan]

But he is the one who applies the description "democratic socialist" to himself, which is harmful to a centrist position.

[pfife]

Idk seems reasonable to me to not want to vote for this.    

 

[Motown Bombers]

The funny thing is, there is all this talk about an insurrection or coup in 2024 and there is not going to be one because the Democrats are just get to sit at home and let the Republicans take the country. 

[Motown Bombers]

When progressives whine that Biden isn't getting anything done.

 

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, pfife said:

Idk seems reasonable to me to not want to vote for this.    

 

The GOP facsist wing plots for 60 years to get to where they are. Democratic progs are ready to go home in 11 mo?

I guess the TV generation needs all stories wrapped up in 48 min.

Edited December 18, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

I think young progressives don't really see a difference in their lives whether Biden or a conservative is president.  So, they don't see voting as a priority if their far left candidates don't have a chance.  They are not obligated to vote for your candidates.   If moderates want to stay in power, the onus is on them to convince the progressives that voting for them is worthwhile.   

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The GOP facsist wing plots for 60 years to get to where they are. Democratic progs are ready to go home in 11 mo?

I guess the TV generation needs all stories wrapped up in 48 min.

Young people have never voted in great numbers and then they grow up to be moderates.  

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I think young progressives don't really see a difference in their lives

They could always the view that their civic lives were an investment in the future. There is a radical thought.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Young people have never voted in great numbers and then they grow up to be moderates.  

probably true, but OTOH I don't think those are the  folks sniping at Biden.

Edited December 18, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

They could always the view that their civic lives were an investment in the future. There is a radical thought.

Where does a young person acquire that view?  When I was young, I never thought politicians had any effect on my life or that my vote mattered.  I usually voted for some strange third party candidate like Anderson or Buchanan.  Come to think of it, I still don't think they make a difference to me personally but, as I age, it's easier to see they might make a difference in the lives of people in need (after they take care of their corporate donors of course).