Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: If Democrats didn't vote in 2016, why did Cinton get the more votes in 2016 than Obama got in 2012? She didn't get more votes. She got about 62,000 less and that was almost the difference between her winning and losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Hillary got over 300,000 less votes in Michigan and Wisconsin than Obama in 2012 and about 75,000 less in Pennsylvania. All those would have more than covered the margin Trump won by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Hillary got over 300,000 less votes in Michigan and Wisconsin than Obama in 2012 and about 75,000 less in Pennsylvania. All those would have more than covered the margin Trump won by right. In fact if the 2008 Obama voters had shown up in each successive election the Dems hold the whole gov. The Dems have numbers but the swing Dem voter understands nothing about how the US gov actually works. They think all they have to do is show up to vote for President and then daddy makes it all better, and when he can't they go pout. The R'Pubs want to strangle the Constitutional Republic, but they've made a fair study of exactly how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Hillary got over 300,000 less votes in Michigan and Wisconsin than Obama in 2012 and about 75,000 less in Pennsylvania. All those would have more than covered the margin Trump won by Was that progressives not voting or fed up working class white males switching from Dem to Rep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Was that progressives not voting or fed up working class white males switching from Dem to Rep? Trump got fewer votes than Romney in Michigan and Wisconsin. Only Pennsylvania did he do better than Romney. Jill Stein also got significantly more votes in those three states than she did in 2012. Stein got 30,000 more votes in Michigan in 2016 than 2012 and 24,000 more votes in Wisconsin than in 2012. Those difference are greater than the margins Trump won by. I'll go out on a limb and say those where Obama to Stein voters than Romney to Stein voters. She also got 38,000 more votes in 2016 in Pennsylvania and the margin was 44,000. I really hope those protest votes for Stein accomplished what the voter wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: Ah yes, more of the OMG do something. Republicans got Roe overturned because they won elections and stayed focus. It took decades and 6 years after Trump first got elected. The answer is to elect more Democrats who support codifying Roe and craving out the filibuster. What is the president suppose to do? As a white male I say fuck it let the Republicans win. It affects me less than others. I didn't blame Hilary. I blame all the entitled Democrats who threw a temper tantrum and didn't vote in 2016. They didn't take the Supreme Court seriously and now that we are faced with the consequences it's just do something. How we got here and who’s to blame only muddle the possible solutions we are faced with today. The possible solutions are probably somewhere between our two posts. Biden can’t do these things himself and yes, it’s very possible that they don’t have the votes to get them done. Still, he must try. He has to push harder and must improve the narrative that he’s not doing enough to fight against the radical right. Perception matters in politics. Maybe now more than ever. He’s doing a tremendously poor job at controlling it. Edited July 11, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hongbit said: How we got here and who’s to blame only muddle the possible solutions we are faced with today. The possible solutions are probably somewhere between our two posts. Biden can’t do these things himself and yes, it’s very possible that they don’t have the votes to get them done. Still, he must try. He has to push harder and must improve the narrative that he’s not doing enough to fight against the radical right. Perception matters in politics. Maybe now more than ever. He’s doing a tremendously poor job at controlling it. Biden is trapped by his quaint belief that reality matters in US politics today. Edited July 11, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hongbit said: How we got here and who’s to blame only muddle the possible solutions we are faced with today. The possible solutions are probably somewhere between our two posts. Biden can’t do these things himself and yes, it’s very possible that they don’t have the votes to get them done. Still, he must try. He has to push harder and must improve the narrative that he’s not doing enough to fight against the radical right. Perception matters in politics. Maybe now more than ever. He’s doing a tremendously poor job at controlling it. The narrative that he has to do more is coming from his own party. He has to deal with friendly fire because a bunch of entitled, mostly progressives, are throwing a temper tantrum. This circular firing squad is muddying the waters. He has said rather forcefully to codify Roe and to carve out the filibuster. The fact is, the Democrats need more senators in the senate and there is a bunch of entitled liberals who don't want to hear that and focus their efforts on getting more Democrats elected. It's becoming a repeat of 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: Biden is trapping by his quaint belief that reality matters in US politics today. It's ironic that Democrats want a liberal Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It's ironic that Democrats want a liberal Trump. Bingo. But the truth is that on that there has always been a certain kind of convergence between the radicals on the left and right when it comes to short cutting process in favor of coercive power. Just look at how the left and right in the middle 20th century both ended up with concentration camps as prime parts of their political program. Edited July 11, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The narrative that he has to do more is coming from his own party. He has to deal with friendly fire because a bunch of entitled, mostly progressives, are throwing a temper tantrum. This circular firing squad is muddying the waters. He has said rather forcefully to codify Roe and to carve out the filibuster. The fact is, the Democrats need more senators in the senate and there is a bunch of entitled liberals who don't want to hear that and focus their efforts on getting more Democrats elected. It's becoming a repeat of 2016. I think that was true when the woke left blasted him about not doing more about the green new deal. That was stupid and harmful to grill him for something that the majority of the party wasn’t ready to die on a hill for. This attack on settled law from SCOTUS is very different and much more galvanizing. The pushback is not coming from entitled democrats. It’s from all sides of the party now. This is a war on our democracy and he’s not to be doing anything to try and fight it. He’s a deer in the headlights at the moment. Even if he can’t fix it, he’s got to do more to make it look like he’s doing something. This is Washington 101 stuff and he’s bungling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Hongbit said: I think that was true when the woke left blasted him about not doing more about the green new deal. That was stupid and harmful to grill him for something that the majority of the party wasn’t ready to die on a hill for. This attack on settled law from SCOTUS is very different and much more galvanizing. The pushback is not coming from entitled democrats. It’s from all sides of the party now. This is a war on our democracy and he’s not to be doing anything to try and fight it. He’s a deer in the headlights at the moment. Even if he can’t fix it, he’s got to do more to make it look like he’s doing something. This is Washington 101 stuff and he’s bungling it. What is it? He's telling voters what they need to do. He has supported carving out the filibuster to codify Roe. He has called out this Supreme Court. What else is he suppose to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: What is it? He's telling voters what they need to do. He has supported carving out the filibuster to codify Roe. He has called out this Supreme Court. What else is he suppose to do? He needs to lead the charge on getting the votes needed for the filibuster. Whip the votes himself and get it done. He needs to take a more aggressive stance on packing the court. Even if he doesn’t want to take this step, he should do a better job of saber rattling that it isn’t off the table. He needs to be on the attack everyday on Roe. He can’t let it become another story lost in our news cycle. If he just wants to tell people they need to get out and vote and wants to go along with whatever congress come up with rather than being the one to leas then he should save us all and announce that he’s not running again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Hongbit said: He needs to lead the charge on getting the votes needed for the filibuster. Whip the votes himself and get it done. He needs to take a more aggressive stance on packing the court. Even if he doesn’t want to take this step, he should do a better job of saber rattling that it isn’t off the table. He needs to be on the attack everyday on Roe. He can’t let it become another story lost in our news cycle. If he just wants to tell people they need to get out and vote and wants to go along with whatever congress come up with rather than being the one to leas then he should save us all and announce that he’s not running again. How does he saber rattle a senator from West Virginia where Trump won by 30 points? Going out and voting is the only solution. Congress has already come up with a bill to codify Roe that has passed the house. They just need a couple more senators to get it across the finish line. Instead, we just want Biden to saber rattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: How does he saber rattle a senator from West Virginia where Trump won by 30 points? Going out and voting is the only solution. Congress has already come up with a bill to codify Roe that has passed the house. They just need a couple more senators to get it across the finish line. Instead, we just want Biden to saber rattle. That’s not what I said at all but ok. Serves me right for engaging with you. Have a good night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hongbit said: That’s not what I said at all but ok. Serves me right for engaging with you. Have a good night Good night. Feel free to use the ignore feature in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Hongbit said: How we got here and who’s to blame only muddle the possible solutions we are faced with today. The possible solutions are probably somewhere between our two posts. Biden can’t do these things himself and yes, it’s very possible that they don’t have the votes to get them done. Still, he must try.... No. It's not Biden must try. It's WE MUST try... harder. I don't just mean a few of us here on MTS. I mean in general, Dems need to work harder to get the vote out/ to get the education out to their voters that every vote is important. It's an almost impossible task, I know, given the construct of the party... But when motivated... Dems win by 81MM to 73MM. But they need to win the local and state battles, for Senator, Governor, State and Federal Reps, etc... You can't blame Biden for not doing anything when he IS pushing to get things done... but the Senate blocks him. No, the answer to that is to get more Dem Senators. This is the long game. And Dems need to get more serious about playing it. That, or we get Republican leadership that represents less than 40% of the country with a backwards 18th century vision running the show and invasively telling everyone in the country how to live our lives. To their specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share Posted July 12, 2022 14 hours ago, Hongbit said: How we got here and who’s to blame only muddle the possible solutions we are faced with today. The possible solutions are probably somewhere between our two posts. Biden can’t do these things himself and yes, it’s very possible that they don’t have the votes to get them done. Still, he must try. He has to push harder and must improve the narrative that he’s not doing enough to fight against the radical right. Perception matters in politics. Maybe now more than ever. He’s doing a tremendously poor job at controlling it. Adding to this. A very large majority of the country thinks there should be Abortion for the case of rape, incest, and the health of the Mother. Even abortion without those exceptions has a majority approval. For someone like me, a conservative that favors GOP fiscal policies but wants to punish the GOP for abortion, if the Dems are just going to throw their hands up in the air, what's the point? If I have to put up with abortion with or without Democrats in charge, maybe I minds well vote GOP and get better fiscal policies (IMO). I'm not saying the above is my mindset as I still want to burn the GOP to the ground for allowing Trump, but in your purple states, giving independent/centrist voters the belief that their votes will make a difference for their state right away, that is a huge encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Fox is going to eventually run out of guests to interview, aren’t they? https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-fan-accused-of-faking-political-hate-crime-insurance-scam-2022-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Fox is going to eventually run out of guests to interview, aren’t they? https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-fan-accused-of-faking-political-hate-crime-insurance-scam-2022-7 Red hats will never hear this, and as far as they're concerned, Antifa is definitely behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 13, 2022 Author Share Posted July 13, 2022 On 7/11/2022 at 8:05 PM, Motown Bombers said: How does he saber rattle a senator from West Virginia where Trump won by 30 points? Going out and voting is the only solution. Congress has already come up with a bill to codify Roe that has passed the house. They just need a couple more senators to get it across the finish line. Instead, we just want Biden to saber rattle. Manchin has already said he would codify RvW, the party wants more than just that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Manchin has already said he would codify RvW, the party wants more than just that though. Isn't the bigger problem that you can't get hardly any Republicans to codify? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted July 13, 2022 Author Share Posted July 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Isn't the bigger problem that you can't get hardly any Republicans to codify? Absolutely, just pointing out WV isn't the problem. Earlier you'll see why I think Biden should be pushing the legislature to put it to a vote to put pressure on those purple states to try and keep some of those borderline Dem seats as well as possibly steal some of those borderline GOP seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 If you're going to give Jill Stein votes to Hillary then don't you have to give Gary Johnson votes to Trump? Johnson got more votes than Stein, so doesn't that negate that argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 I know Chuck will shred the tweeter but this is a little alarming. Should he stand aside and let somone else run for president next round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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