Biden's presidency

[pfife]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

I'm pointing out that the party as a whole has basically downplayed the issue.  When forced to pay attention to it, Biden put Harris on it, which pretty much confirms he didn't care dealing with it.  

Fast forward a few years and the stress of so many immigrants in a short time has many of these big city mayors recognizing there may be an issue.   My comment about 'wondering why they hate them now' was sarcastic.  If a republican even mentioned changing laws to make it tougher on immigrants they would be raked over the coals and proof on how horrible the GOP is.

What I truly do wonder about this issue and how the Biden administration is handling it is if they have the same view as you, essentially a 'who cares how much is sucks for folks, we love immigrants.  As such, it's better to have folks deal with the pain of uncontrolled immigration rather than try and control it but possibly prevent some folks that want to come from coming'.

You didn't say the democrats were downplaying the issue - you literally said they hate immigrants when they move to cities, to which I said they don't hate Immigrants when they move to cities.

[pfife]

Republicans literally blabbering on about strengthening immigration laws every day and no one rakes them over the coals.   In fact posters here such as youself argue democrats should emulate that as you are currently. 

So basically you're concern trolling.     Shocking.

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, MIguy said:

Last year, the USA processed around 7.3 million visas...

How many of those are visitor passes versus immigration or work visas?

7.3MM is not a lot if those are mostly tourists...

[MIguy]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

How many of those are visitor passes versus immigration or work visas?

7.3MM is not a lot if those are mostly tourists...

I was only pointing out the amount of visas we're processing compared to what was being done back then.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, pfife said:

Republicans literally blabbering on about strengthening immigration laws every day and no one rakes them over the coals...

Independents & Democrats are perfectly fine with strengthening immigration laws...

But Republicans block them because that want Absolute Zero immigration (Trumpublicans), want to screw Dreamers and such, want to "build a wall" and machine gun nests at the southern border instead of doing anything ****ING REASONABLE...

 

(comments not aimed at you pfife, but at the Republican BS'ers who are no longer F'ing REASONABLE on anything).

Trumpublican Republicans can Go **** Themselves. And their hypocrisy.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, MIguy said:

I was only pointing out the amount of visas we're processing compared to what was being done back then.

Which doesn't say ANYTHING if those are mostly Tourist Visas. Which can be processed at any Embassy around the world.

Need more info before making any call on the 7.3 million. Otherwise, that number is useless...

[pfife]

41 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Independents & Democrats are perfectly fine with strengthening immigration laws...

But Republicans block them because that want Absolute Zero immigration (Trumpublicans), want to screw Dreamers and such, want to "build a wall" and machine gun nests at the southern border instead of doing anything ****ING REASONABLE...

 

(comments not aimed at you pfife, but at the Republican BS'ers who are no longer F'ing REASONABLE on anything).

Trumpublican Republicans can Go **** Themselves. And their hypocrisy.

I think they want to flog the issue for electoral gain.   Which is another flaw in Es argument which seems to rely on the notion that a politician flogging immigration means there's an immigration problem.   

[MIguy]

43 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Which doesn't say ANYTHING if those are mostly Tourist Visas. Which can be processed at any Embassy around the world.

Need more info before making any call on the 7.3 million. Otherwise, that number is useless...

Processing a tourist visa is most certainly more time consuming and thorough than someone sitting at Ellis Island having people write their names in a ledger.  

[1984Echoes]

40 minutes ago, MIguy said:

Processing a tourist visa is most certainly more time consuming and thorough than someone sitting at Ellis Island having people write their names in a ledger.  

At the US Embassy in London? Kiev? Paris? Istanbul?

Try again.

[MIguy]

5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

At the US Embassy in London? Kiev? Paris? Istanbul?

Try again.

I don't care where it's processed or what type of visa it is, the simple fact is that it is more time consuming to process a person for entry into the country today than it was in 1892.  

 

[ewsieg]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, pfife said:

Republicans literally blabbering on about strengthening immigration laws every day and no one rakes them over the coals.   In fact posters here such as youself argue democrats should emulate that as you are currently. 

So basically you're concern trolling.     Shocking.

I'm not concern trolling, maybe I just didn't express myself right.  It was a question to try and understand the left's thought on immigration as a whole.  I do have concerns and I laid some of those out and did point out that even some dems seem to have concerns. 

In short though, do you folks on the left have no concern, some, or a lot of concern about immigration and additionally, are those concerns based on a perceived real issue or just political.

I guess if you were in charge and had full control to do what you wanted, would you keep status quo and wonder why it's even being reported, would you believe some slight changes were needed, or would you take an entirely different approach to dealing with something you do think is an issue.

 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

I'm not concern trolling, maybe I just didn't express myself right.  It was a question to try and understand the left's thought on immigration as a whole.  I do have concerns and I laid some of those out and did point out that even some dems seem to have concerns. 

In short though, do you folks on the left have no concern, some, or a lot of concern about immigration and additionally, are those concerns based on a perceived real issue or just political.

Speaking as a folk on the left, I might have some concern if the MAGA Republicans who are behind most of the anti-immigration effort would provide good data in support of their arguments. Instead I just see histrionics about wide open borders and bringing drugs and bringing crime and rapists and some I assume are good people. It's a lot of scary words but no facts that I have seen so far. If you have any data to share, something that would perhaps bottom-line the scope of the problem, I'd love to review and consider it.

[mtutiger]

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

Speaking as a folk on the left, I might have some concern if the MAGA Republicans who are behind most of the anti-immigration effort would provide good data in support of their arguments. Instead I just see histrionics about wide open borders and bringing drugs and bringing crime and rapists and some I assume are good people. It's a lot of scary words but no facts that I have seen so far. If you have any data to share, something that would perhaps bottom-line the scope of the problem, I'd love to review and consider it.

Correct, you don't hear a lot of solutions. Which, to be honest, is in keeping with MAGA.... long on complaints, short on actual, concrete solutions.

I will be the first to say that I have issues with how the southern border is being handled.... but the other party is currently talking about bombing Mexico in their debates, so not sure if there's a better alternative if I'm being honest.

[ewsieg]

47 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Correct, you don't hear a lot of solutions. Which, to be honest, is in keeping with MAGA.... long on complaints, short on actual, concrete solutions.

I will be the first to say that I have issues with how the southern border is being handled.... but the other party is currently talking about bombing Mexico in their debates, so not sure if there's a better alternative if I'm being honest.

What are your concerns of an open border?  Your response seems to indicate the reasons the GOP gives are wrong, yet you indicate you have some issues.  I feel the GOP had no legitimate plan to deal with the border, just haven’t seen one from the left either.
 

also, why do you disagree with bombing Mexico?  Do you not agree that Ukraine should be able to engage any Russian targets, regardless where they are?  

[mtutiger]

36 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Your response seems to indicate the reasons the GOP gives are wrong...

My response doesn't suggest anyone is wrong, is suggests that the GOP is long on complaints and short on solutions.

Which is in keeping with how the GOP handles most things these days, I'm afraid.

36 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I feel the GOP had no legitimate plan to deal with the border, just haven’t seen one from the left either.

I've been pretty consistent on this, I think that in order to actually solve the issue of migrants coming to this country, it extends beyond the border. You have to deter people from the place of origin.

Can you explain to me what today's GOP has proposed to help ameliorate economies in Central American countries to help persuade people to stay?

Ultimately, the crisis isn't solved until the above question is resolved. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

42 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Also, why do you disagree with bombing Mexico?  Do you not agree that Russia should be able to engage any Ukranian targets, regardless where they are?  

FTFY

[pfife]

Wtaf

[Motor City Sonics]

6 hours ago, mtutiger said:

My response doesn't suggest anyone is wrong, is suggests that the GOP is long on complaints and short on solutions.

Which is in keeping with how the GOP handles most things these days, I'm afraid.

I've been pretty consistent on this, I think that in order to actually solve the issue of migrants coming to this country, it extends beyond the border. You have to deter people from the place of origin.

Can you explain to me what today's GOP has proposed to help ameliorate economies in Central American countries to help persuade people to stay?

Ultimately, the crisis isn't solved until the above question is resolved. 

They don't want to resolve anything so they can continue using it to scare dumb  people.  

[ewsieg]

6 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Can you explain to me what today's GOP has proposed to help ameliorate economies in Central American countries to help persuade people to stay?

Ultimately, the crisis isn't solved until the above question is resolved. 

Absolutely agree with this, almost seems like our decades long policy toward central America maybe wasn't the best in hindsight.  As for explaining the GOP thoughts on immigration, I can't speak to them as the only thing I hear out of them is the wall.  I see no legitimate plan from them either.  

That's in part why I'm been voting democrat, as the other party cares more about getting a kudo's from Trump than substance.  I'm merely pointing out whatever they claim they are doing on immigration isn't working and I still am not sure if that's by design or incompetence.  

[Tiger337]

16 hours ago, ewsieg said:

I'm not concern trolling, maybe I just didn't express myself right.  It was a question to try and understand the left's thought on immigration as a whole.  I do have concerns and I laid some of those out and did point out that even some dems seem to have concerns. 

In short though, do you folks on the left have no concern, some, or a lot of concern about immigration and additionally, are those concerns based on a perceived real issue or just political.

I guess if you were in charge and had full control to do what you wanted, would you keep status quo and wonder why it's even being reported, would you believe some slight changes were needed, or would you take an entirely different approach to dealing with something you do think is an issue.

 

I think immigration is mostly a good thing.  We have always had immigration and it has helped us grow as a country.  Short term, they do jobs that Americans don't want to do.  Long-term, they bring new perspectives and innovation.   In the long-term, Immigrant groups also tend to be healthier than native born Americans (Both Blacks and Whites).  There is also no evidence that they commit more crimes than native born Americans.  My only concern is logistics.  There needs to be a limit to how many new people are coming here at the same time because it is difficult to accomodate large numbers of people getting settled even if they may be valuable long term.  It is something that needs to be dealt with continuously, but it is not on the top of my list of big issues.    

Also, the wall is stupid and costly and will likely accomplish very little.   

Edited September 29, 2023 by Tiger337

[ewsieg]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think immigration is mostly a good thing.  We have always had immigration and it has helped us grow as a country.  Short term, they do jobs that Americans don't want to do.  Long-term, they bring new perspectives and innovation.   In the long-term, Immigrant groups also tend to be healthier than native born Americans (Both Blacks and Whites).  There is also no evidence that they commit more crimes than native born Americans.  My only concern is logistics.  There needs to be a limit to how many new people are coming here at the same time because it is difficult to accomodate large numbers of people getting settled even if they may be valuable long term.  It is something that needs to be dealth with continuously, but it is not on the top of my list of big issues.    

Also, the wall is stupid and costly and will likely accomplish very little.   

Sounds like we're on the same page.  Only thing i'd mention is the border patrol has asked for more wall, not a wall from the gulf of mexico to the pacific, but they have identified areas that they feel could benefit them if there is a wall, which is in part why walls were being built under bipartisan support prior to Trump making it an issue.  

 

 

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Sounds like we're on the same page.  Only thing i'd mention is the border patrol has asked for more wall, not a wall from the gulf of mexico to the pacific, but they have identified areas that they feel could benefit them if there is a wall, which is in part why walls were being built under bipartisan support prior to Trump making it an issue.  

 

 

I don't have a problem with people who understand what's going on requesting a wall in stategic areas as part of the effort to manage immigration.  What's stupid is the MAGA idea of a big wall solving all immigration programs.  

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

They don't want to resolve anything so they can continue using it to scare dumb  people.  

Exactly this, in the same way they don't want to actually fix the economy because they need to point to what they say is a poor economy so they can hammer Democrats on it to get votes. They need the price of eggs  and the price of gas to be over five bucks. And they need a Crisis on the Border™.

And besides, if they do try to fix any of the things they complain about, whether it's the economy, the border, or whatever else, they'll be the ones to get the blame when the solution goes upside down on them. So in the end, implementing solutions is actually a lose-lose proposition for the Republicans. There's literally nothing in it for them.

[MIguy]

The immigration system obviously needs an overhaul but I don't really see a way of fixing it.  You could quadruple the number of immigrants you let into the country and you're still going to have many more coming in the same ways they are now.  

[CMRivdogs]

Somewhat related, this was in my morning newsfeed. The Reliable Sources Newsletter (sorry no link)

Evidently the MAGA Party is upset that a moderator dared to ask tough questions at the last clown show...

Quote

Republicans are enraged that their safe space was punctured at the second GOP debate by a Univision anchor. 

 

Ilia Calderón, an Emmy Award-winning journalist who co-anchors the evening news at the Spanish language network, triggered outrage on the right by asking the candidates sharp questions on a range of important topics on Wednesday evening. After welcoming viewers in Spanish (the debate was simulcast on Univision), Calderón queried the Republicans through the night on weighty issues related to immigration, hate crimes, health care, and more.

 

But unlike what is typical on Fox News, Calderón declined to frame her questions in a manner favorable for the Republican candidates. Instead of setting them up with softball-style prompts to tee off, Calderón pressed the would-be presidents for substantive answers on an array of important subjects. The candidates struggled to respond directly, and in some cases tried to duck the questions entirely.