Biden's presidency

[oblong]

57 minutes ago, Archie said:

Its not right to compate three different situations.  Brown went for the officers gun. The officer did nothing wrong and protected himself. Anyone who goes for an officers gun is going to be in a world of hurt. Zimmerman is a private citizen who used lethal force when attacked.  He is probably less than an upstanding citizen but still has a right to protect himself.  Floyd is a totally different situation.

George Zimmerman saw a black kid and confronted him, started to get his ass kicked , then shot him.   

[Archie]

Just now, oblong said:

George Zimmerman saw a black kid and confronted him, started to get his ass kicked , then shot him.   

He still has a right to defend himself

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Marjorie Taylor Greene enjoys being an asshole, but she only gets away with it because she isn't a liberal woman or woman of color. I think people like AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Cori Bush, and Rashida embrace their fighting nature, but could never get away with it because of the racist and xenophobic (and Islamophobic in Rashida's case) backlash they would face.

but she doesnt get away with it, she is extremely unpopular.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

We don't elect people by popularity though, so he didn't lose in the end. I wouldn't write off MTG being able to win the Electoral College. I think she could give Democrats a run for it. We live in an era where we can't take anything for granted.

I took Trump for granted in 2016, still voted for Hillary in the very end, and I'm not doing that again.

the republicans running mtg is a democrats' wet dream.  elizabeth warren might even be able to best her...

of course the democrats would probably nominate cori bush just to make it a fair fight on the ol' national unelectable scale...

[oblong]

2 hours ago, Archie said:

He still has a right to defend himself

So I can go push someone, get pushed back, then shoot him. Self defense. Zimmerman is a punk who has shown since then that he’s capable of murder.  He attacked the kid and the kid fought back and the racist shot him in cold blood and Florida’s stupid law waved his ass. He is the one who deserved to die that night. Not some kid minding his own business.  

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

has there been an american female candidate who embraced it like thatcher?  An "iron lady" who embraced her inner bit...ummm...cantankerousness?

i dont know if that would fly in america on a national scale.

Jeane Kirkpatrick was of a similar mold, but never ran for office (that I know of....)

[Archie]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

So I can go push someone, get pushed back, then shoot him. Self defense. Zimmerman is a punk who has shown since then that he’s capable of murder.  He attacked the kid and the kid fought back and the racist shot him in cold blood and Florida’s stupid law waved his ass. He is the one who deserved to die that night. Not some kid minding his own business.  

Zimmerman had significant injuries to justify his actions.  Michigan laws are basically the same. If your life is in danger or you are in danger of great bodily harm any amount of force including lethal force is justified.  Its also justifiable to save someone else's life.  If you or a family member was attacted would you lay down and die or fight back?

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

Zimmerman had significant injuries to justify his actions.  Michigan laws are basically the same. If your life is in danger or you are in danger of great bodily harm any amount of force including lethal force is justified.  Its also justifiable to save someone else's life.  If you or a family member was attacted would you lay down and die or fight back?

fight back doesnt mean shoot and kill.  at least it doesnt to me.

zimmerman initiated the confrontation.  martin escalated it and ended up beating zimmerman.  you can defend yourself without deadly force.

i would have convicted zimmerman of something, but i'm not sure what?  it wasnt a cut and dry case for sure, but i wouldnt absolve zimmerman for any fault that occurred.

in the every day vernacular: "zimmerman started it."

[oblong]

It’s no accident that this only gets analyzed from the perspective of George Zimmerman. What about Trayvon Martin’s ?  he’s walking back from the store and some guy starts harassing him and gets physical so doesn’t he have a right to defend himself up to and including lethal force?  Or is that rule only for non blacks? Why is Zimmerman allowed to kill someone but Martin has to hold back?  Lethal Force can be one punch to the face.  Martin was defending himself.  The law as you present it makes no sense. If I wanted to kill someone I could just pick a fight with them and wait for them to start hitting back, take some blows until it gets rough then shoot them and claim self defense.  Yeah. Makes sense. 

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

It’s no accident that this only gets analyzed from the perspective of George Zimmerman. What about Trayvon Martin’s ?  he’s walking back from the store and some guy starts harassing him and gets physical so doesn’t he have a right to defend himself up to and including lethal force?  Or is that rule only for non blacks? Why is Zimmerman allowed to kill someone but Martin has to hold back?  Lethal Force can be one punch to the face.  Martin was defending himself.  The law as you present it makes no sense. If I wanted to kill someone I could just pick a fight with them and wait for them to start hitting back, take some blows until it gets rough then shoot them and claim self defense.  Yeah. Makes sense. 

how was martin defending himself?  from what?

if someone yells at you in the street are you legally entitled to go up to him and beat his ass?  is that your new standard?

you can think zimmerman was in the wrong and still think martin didnt act within the boundaries of a legally justified response.

[Archie]

What it came down to was Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his head on the concrete.  He did what most people would do that had a firearm.  i don't know why anyone would be dumb enough to fight with someone today.  More people than ever carry a firearm for protection. Fighting is dumb anyway. They're never any winners.

[buddha]

Just now, Archie said:

What it came down to was Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his head on the concrete.  He did what most people would do that had a firearm.  i don't know why anyone would be dumb enough to fight with someone today.  More people than ever carry a firearm for protection. Fighting is dumb anyway. They're never any winners.

zimmerman initiated it and then killed a man.  he deserved to spend time in jail.

[oblong]

38 minutes ago, buddha said:

how was martin defending himself?  from what?

if someone yells at you in the street are you legally entitled to go up to him and beat his ass?  is that your new standard?

you can think zimmerman was in the wrong and still think martin didnt act within the boundaries of a legally justified response.

A stranger yelling and harassing you in the dark who is armed is a self defense situation.  A person who initiates a physical confrontation loses the high ground on self defense when it comes to discharging their firearm in a lethal way.  He’s exhibit A why more guns in the hands of citizens is a bad idea. 

[buddha]

32 minutes ago, oblong said:

A stranger yelling and harassing you in the dark who is armed is a self defense situation.  A person who initiates a physical confrontation loses the high ground on self defense when it comes to discharging their firearm in a lethal way.  He’s exhibit A why more guns in the hands of citizens is a bad idea. 

not legally it doesnt.

i dont know why you completely excuse martin's actions.  your theory allows anyone who is confronted verbally to have license to beat the shit out of someone, and you think that's ok?

i get it, zimmerman was wrong.  zimmerman should go to jail for shooting martin.  i agree with you.  but martin is not blameless, even if he is a black guy.

[pfife]

even if he is a black guy?

trollin as always

Edited November 11, 2021 by pfife

[pfife]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

how was martin defending himself?  from what?

if someone yells at you in the street are you legally entitled to go up to him and beat his ass?  is that your new standard?

you can think zimmerman was in the wrong and still think martin didnt act within the boundaries of a legally justified response.

 

1 hour ago, buddha said:

zimmerman initiated it and then killed a man.  he deserved to spend time in jail.

consecutive posts.  

Literally arguing both sides.   Troll much?

[oblong]

10 hours ago, buddha said:

not legally it doesnt.

i dont know why you completely excuse martin's actions.  your theory allows anyone who is confronted verbally to have license to beat the shit out of someone, and you think that's ok?

i get it, zimmerman was wrong.  zimmerman should go to jail for shooting martin.  i agree with you.  but martin is not blameless, even if he is a black guy.

Yeah I get it.  Black teenagers need to learn where they are allowed to walk at night. Or else overzealous gun nuts might follow them and threaten them and don’t try to fight back because you will deservedly get shot because self defense at that point

thats the logic they used in the south when they would lynch them.

 

women also need to stop dressing a certain way and not leave the house after 9 and never drink at parties… yeah rape is wrong but why let them off the hook?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

but she doesnt get away with it, she is extremely unpopular.

MTG would be whistling Dixie if she ran in a Republican Presidential Primary, right through to the finish line where she would win. If Trump didn't run in 2024 and endorsed MTG, she'd be the winner of that primary. And she'd have a base of at very least 40% to start off with right off the bat and could expand it out from there.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, buddha said:

not legally it doesnt.

i dont know why you completely excuse martin's actions.  your theory allows anyone who is confronted verbally to have license to beat the shit out of someone, and you think that's ok?

i get it, zimmerman was wrong.  zimmerman should go to jail for shooting martin.  i agree with you.  but martin is not blameless, even if he is a black guy.

So there’s some magic line in there up to which a black kid can defend himself, where anything less than that allows him to get bullied and assaulted by an armed thug, and anything more than that he deserves what’s coming to him? I suppose The Talk that black parents give their young boys contemplates that line.

[Tiger337]

19 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

MTG would be whistling Dixie if she ran in a Republican Presidential Primary, right through to the finish line where she would win. If Trump didn't run in 2024 and endorsed MTG, she'd be the winner of that primary. And she'd have a base of at very least 40% to start off with right off the bat and could expand it out from there.

Sure, the usual Republican groups would support her, but she would have to get people to vote too.  For some odd reason, Trump is considered very convincing and charismatic and his supporters love him.  He gets people to vote in large numbers.  That won't happen for every right wing nut job.   

 

[buddha]

56 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

MTG would be whistling Dixie if she ran in a Republican Presidential Primary, right through to the finish line where she would win. If Trump didn't run in 2024 and endorsed MTG, she'd be the winner of that primary. And she'd have a base of at very least 40% to start off with right off the bat and could expand it out from there.

i dont think so, but we'll see.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Yeah I get it.  Black teenagers need to learn where they are allowed to walk at night. Or else overzealous gun nuts might follow them and threaten them and don’t try to fight back because you will deservedly get shot because self defense at that point

thats the logic they used in the south when they would lynch them.

 

women also need to stop dressing a certain way and not leave the house after 9 and never drink at parties… yeah rape is wrong but why let them off the hook?

i dont believe in vigilantism.  which is why i think george zimmerman should be in jail, rittenhouse should be in jail, and that trayvon martin shouldnt have beaten up george zimmerman.

i dont think that's particularly controversial.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

24 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont think so, but we'll see.

The days of George Will, William F. Buckley, Bob Dole, George H.W. Bush, and the thoughtful conservatives are over and done. Hell, the days of yearning for Ronald Reagan are over because no one can outshine The Dear Leader Trump. The Republican Party is now reducing itself to tax cuts for the rich, grievance politics, culture wars, and conspiracy theories about vaccines and election fraud. The MTG and Trump wing of the party will be the majority of their base and their elected leaders in D.C. over the next several years. What keeps them relevant is Democrats own bumbling, a lack of a clear message to sell nationally to the American people, being framed as anti-public safety and anti-American, an uncharismatic figure leading it at the top, and inflation hurting the economy.

If George H.W. Bush, Mitt Romney or Bob Dole ran in a GOP primary today they wouldn't get 20% of the vote combined. The right has been radicalized for at least a generation, possibly more. Not only have baby boomers on the right been radicalized but so have their Gen X'er children who are between 43-55 years old. We have to deal with a decade of these people taking political power, holding office, and being the dominate voting block before Millennials and Gen Z become a strong enough force that they can overcome Boomers and Gen X'ers on the right. God help us all if Millennials and Gen Z start becoming more right wing or get hijacked by nationalism.

With the rise of radicalized Gen X'ers you are going to see candidates like MTG, Ron DeSanits, Ted Cruz, and Josh Hawley be at the forefront of their national politics and be the top contenders for their Presidential nominee.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Archie]

Apparently Joe is a baseball fan since he went off script in his Veteran's Day speech and started talking about Satchel Paige. He stated Paige was a great negro.  No wonder they won't let him talk to the press.

[Tiger337]

4 hours ago, Archie said:

Apparently Joe is a baseball fan since he went off script in his Veteran's Day speech and started talking about Satchel Paige. He stated Paige was a great negro.  No wonder they won't let him talk to the press.

At least he didn't talk about himself being a national hero.