Tiger337 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: probably true, but OTOH I don't think those are the folks sniping at Biden. Why not? I would think that those who care enough to gripe are the ones most likely to grow up and be exposed to different types of situations that could change their outlooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 Covid-19 Deaths under Biden Surpass Deaths during Trump Administration Waiting for MSM and TDS types to blame Biden for "mass murder" as they did Trump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Cartman said: Covid-19 Deaths under Biden Surpass Deaths during Trump Administration Waiting for MSM and TDS types to blame Biden for "mass murder" as they did the guy who got COVID and gave it to others at a White House super spreader event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Cartman said: Covid-19 Deaths under Biden Surpass Deaths during Trump Administration Waiting for MSM and TDS types to blame Biden for "mass murder" as they did Trump.... The market is up 26% for the year. Best economy ever! Let's Go Brandon! Edited December 18, 2021 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: The market is up 26% for the year. Best economy ever! Let's Go Brandon! I would say i’m more of a NeverTrump than a TDS type. it’s not deranged to want sane, good governance by a person who doesn’t routinely pay off his whores and consorts with Russian mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Why not? I would think that those who care enough to gripe are the ones most likely to grow up and be exposed to different types of situations that could change their outlooks. weren't you talking about the disengaged type? They're not the AOC crowd railing that their Rome won't be built in a day. I'd put them in the "my vote doesn't matter because nothing ever changes" slot. Their error is that a lot of stuff does change, they just aren't really paying attention to a lot of the institutional decay that will be a lot harder to fix if we have to wait for them to start noticing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: weren't you talking about the disengaged type? They're not the AOC crowd railing that their Rome won't be built in a day. I'd put them in the "my vote doesn't matter because nothing ever changes" slot. Their error is that a lot of stuff does change, they just aren't really paying attention to a lot of the institutional decay that will be a lot harder to fix if we have to wait for them to start noticing. Those ones who thought Hillary and Trump were the same will now have to deal with a conservative Supreme Court for most of their adult life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I think young progressives don't really see a difference in their lives whether Biden or a conservative is president.... They will when the fascists take over the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: They will when the fascists take over the country. The conservatives also fear fascists are going to take over the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Those ones who thought Hillary and Trump were the same will now have to deal with a conservative Supreme Court for most of their adult life. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 Just now, Tiger337 said: The conservatives fear socialists are going to take over the country. FTFY. That's what the Republican Party has been bleating about the past two years, and will be doing so again for the next umpteen years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: FTFY. That's what the Republican Party has been bleating about the past two years, and will be doing so again for the next umpteen years... No, it's not just that. The government is going to take away your guns and strip you of all your freedoms. They are already forcing you to take vaccines which cause heart attacks and allow them to control your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Cartman said: Covid-19 Deaths under Biden Surpass Deaths during Trump Administration Waiting for MSM and TDS types to blame Biden for "mass murder" as they did Trump.... I don't know if this post is supposed to be a gotcha post or what, but I'll address it. Yes, more people have died in 2021 than 2020 from Covid because we've had an entire year of a full blown pandemic versus 9-10 months of one as we had in 2020. It isn't for a lack of trying on Biden's part to prevent hospitalizations and deaths. His administration has carried out a nationwide vaccine rollout, tried to implement a vaccine mandate, offered free vaccines to every American who wants one, encouraged everyone to mask up and get vaccinated, and more. In-terms of deaths, where they are happening, and who they are happening, it is still true that older people, those with pre-existing conditions, and those at higher risk factors because of health problems like diabetes, high blood pressure, smoking, and more are dying at a higher rate. You know who else is starting to get seriously sick and die at a higher rate, then unvaccinated. You know who make up a big number of the unvaccinated in this country, Republicans and people who voted for Donald Trump. Have you looked at the data showing whose dying from Covid at a higher and higher rate as time goes on? Trends are tragically showing it is Republicans and Trump voters. New York Times: Red Covid Akron Beacon-Journal: COVID Killing 2.3 Times Faster in Trump Counties in Ohio Urban Milwaukee: How Republicans Are Killing Their Supporters Edited December 19, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I think young progressives don't really see a difference in their lives whether Biden or a conservative is president. So, they don't see voting as a priority if their far left candidates don't have a chance. They are not obligated to vote for your candidates. If moderates want to stay in power, the onus is on them to convince the progressives that voting for them is worthwhile. Just from my observation, a lot of people in my cohort are very rigid in their politics. Such that they want the accomplishments they want when they want them, and failure to succeed in getting those accomplishments is abject failure. And, frankly, they seem oblivious to political reality in terms of structure of government. What it misses is that, again, we don't elect Kings in this country. A President has a lot of power, but he or she still has to pass legislation to get things done. And right now, you have a small majority in the House and a practically nonexistent majority in the Senate with which to work with, which includes Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. Taking that into account, and knowing how the opposition is, it's impressive that they have gotten as much done as they have. But instead of using the current predicament as motivation to persuade or to elect different politicians, all we hear about is complaining about how ones vote doesn't matter and that they'll stay home. Republicans? They don't do that shit.... they'll complain about their politicians but will still show up in big numbers. Young D voters? You either check off all my boxes or I'll stay home. Edited December 19, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 The right on this forum says the left loves Biden. You can either believe what the right on this forum says, or you can believe the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Just from my observation, a lot of people in my cohort are very rigid in their politics. Such that they want the accomplishments they want when they want them, and failure to succeed in getting those accomplishments is abject failure. And, frankly, they seem oblivious to political reality in terms of structure of government. What it misses is that, again, we don't elect Kings in this country. A President has a lot of power, but he or she still has to pass legislation to get things done. And right now, you have a small majority in the House and a practically nonexistent majority in the Senate with which to work with, which includes Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. Taking that into account, and knowing how the opposition is, it's impressive that they have gotten as much done as they have. But instead of using the current predicament as motivation to persuade or to elect different politicians, all we hear about is complaining about how ones vote doesn't matter and that they'll stay home. Republicans? They don't do that shit.... they'll complain about their politicians but will still show up in big numbers. Young D voters? You either check off all my boxes or I'll stay home. I think showing up is more young versus old than D versus R and young happen to be more D than R. What can be done to get the younger people voting more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Maybe a politician could do something to court their votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think showing up is more young versus old than D versus R and young happen to be more D than R. What can be done to get the younger people voting more? Check off all their boxes (which, as we've discussed, is a lot harder in practice when you take in account the structure of government). Seriously, I don't know the answer. Itd be nice to think there would be some reflection on what staying home acccomplishes when the SCOTUS dismembers Roe, but I doubt it. Edited December 19, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) Hearing BBB is dead, Manchin said no on Fox News Sunday just now. 🤔 how can we get young ppl to vote for democrats? Edited December 19, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) One would think that the best course of action would be to elect additional Senators that would make Manchin's vote less critical, but maybe I'm just old fashioned. Edited December 19, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Check off all their boxes (which, as we've discussed, is a lot harder in practice when you take in account the structure of government). Seriously, I don't know the answer. Itd be nice to think there would be some reflection on what staying home acccomplishes when the SCOTUS dismembers Roe, but I doubt it. I don't think they'll dismember Roe. They'll make some changes, but I can't see them making abortion illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I can't see them making abortion illegal. It will be 5-4, they will loose Roberts but other 5 will uphold Mississippi. So, how is the vision plan at Brandeis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, pfife said: Maybe a politician could do something to court their votes. politicians court people who make contributions. The young in general have low levels of discretionary funds. When money = speech, then it's really money = votes and the idea of a 'one man, one vote' democracy gets replaced by a 'one dollar, one vote' one. This is a failed government and it has passed the tipping point of ever being able to reform itself back into a functioning representative democracy. Edited December 19, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 I'm at the point where I don't care anymore. McConnell held open a Supreme Court seat for 9 months and that still wasn't enough to get Democrats to vote. An insurrection and voter suppression still doesn't appear to enough. I'm so tired of trying to care about things that don't affect me when that group just doesn't care enough to vote. Roe doesn't affect so get rid of it. It took over 50 years to get to this point but Democrats have thrown in the towel after 12 months. McConnell has been working at this since before AOC was born. Instead of taking what Manchin gives them and working on flipping PA, WI, FL, NC, OH etc, they just forfeit and hand it over to the Republicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 On 12/17/2021 at 3:37 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said: When people on the left say they want more Democrats to take a page out of the Bernie playbook when campaigning and politicking, this is what some of us are talking about. Bernie came to Battle Creek today and gave a speech in support of the striking Kellogg workers. Joe Biden should be in town doing the same thing. There's no reason Biden couldn't have come in, stood on the picket lines and made a show of it with a big speech. Where's that middle class kid from Scranton at right now? If Democrats want to win back white working class voters, standing on the picket lines in support of them is a great place to start. the "white working class" voted overwhelmingly for donald trump, who is avidly anti-union. support for unions is not what drives the white working class to vote. biden openly marching with union workers would do nothing to help him nationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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