2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Motor City Sonics]

Scott Harris' rebuild is the team operations right now.   The players are secondary at this point.  It's about loading this team's scouting department and player personnel staff with people who can recognize talent at all levels.   It won't be a very exciting roster in 2023.  Maybe they take on Justin Turner for a year or something like that to fill a gap at third.    I think Harris really has to wait until he sees just how healed all the injured pitchers will be in 2024.   

I don't know who plays third, but are we going to miss anyone he's cut loose?   I doubt it.   I did like Harold Castro because he was a competent hitter, but this team has a who bunch of guys like that.  Too many, in fact.   I don't see Clemens, Kreidler or Lipcius as ready to contribute much.    Wenceel Perez is the interesting one - he took a major leap this year, but in his limited time at 3b he has not looked good..  Javy's played 600 innings at third base, his numbers are not great, but it's more acceptable to have a 3b go .951 than a shortstop go .954.  

Yep, they'll sign some free agents........probably older ones on 1 year prove it deals.  It might look very Al Avilia-esque this first year.  

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Edman85 said:

There's a lot of penciling in Colt Keith for a lineup spot after a good Arizona Fall League and a Lynn Henning puff piece.

And around a year ago at this time, there was a lot of chatter in favor of Kreidler as the starting SS.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

could be a move back toward the traditional concept where your utility guys are better defenders. We've gotten used to the fact that Avila had moved away from it.

That's a possibility.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Longgone said:

There will be more moves, many more.

That's a probability.

[casimir]

51 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

It is simply time to relax.

Well, now this is ridiculous.  We haven't had a Tiger game thread to throw our anguish around in months.  The days are getting shorter.  The weather is getting colder.  Our families and friends are sick of the extra exposure to us that we would normally be devoting to the Tigers during the regular season.  Time to relax?  Balderdash.  Now is the time of our discontent.

[RatkoVarda]

That's about $9M saved in salary or about $7M when factoring a minimum salary for a 40 man roster guy.

They should absolutely spend this winter, though there seems to be a very small middle class of position players, which makes it complicated.

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, casimir said:

Well, now this is ridiculous.  We haven't had a Tiger game thread to throw our anguish around in months.  The days are getting shorter.  The weather is getting colder.  Our families and friends are sick of the extra exposure to us that we would normally be devoting to the Tigers during the regular season.  Time to relax?  Balderdash.  Now is the time of our discontent.

but shall it be made glorious Summer by this son of Harris?

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

That's about $9M saved in salary or about $7M when factoring a minimum salary for a 40 man roster guy.

They should absolutely spend this winter, though there seems to be a very small middle class of position players, which makes it complicated.

It doesn't seem like there are a lot of fish in the free agent pond.  There are some big ones out there.  But it doesn't seem like non tendering Candelario and some others are the difference in whether or not to play in free agency.  Maybe they can extract a league average position player on an above league average contract along with some legit prospect(s) from a team that has a shorter term deal that they'd like to move. 

Anthony Rendon was mentioned somewheres around here.  That contract is probably too rich/long to take on, and I don't fully know what his injury deal has been the last two seasons.  But I think looking at his stats, there's reason to believe that of he can regain his health, he'll bounce back as a player.  In spite of his summary production the last couple of seasons, he's been a guy that has maintained his control of the strike zone while BABIP (and health) have been his enemy.  Heck, given the acquisition of Urshela, maybe the Angels would consider holding onto some of the Rendon salary liability and kick in some futures just to move him out of town?

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

but shall it be made glorious Summer by this son of Harris?

Our friends and families can only hope so.

[Tenacious D]

57 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I wouldnt call the cuts yesterday obvious, fwiw. At least on here given the back and forth discussion about whether it was better to keep Candy or not.

What I do think we can conclude so far is that the new guy isn't gonna just fall back on doing the safe thing... it would have been easy and safe (and frankly, the Avila move) to bring back Candy and at least one of the Castros rather than risk having to fill in their spots with someone else.

Our expectations as fans should evolve accordingly.

I respectfully disagree.  There were zero surprises for me.  And I’ve been underwhelmed with his dumpster diving, including the OF he grabbed yesterday.  
I’m not concerned—as I outlined, nothing so far has been significant.  Now that the roster has been settled, we can start to evaluate moving forward.

[Motor City Sonics]

Something tells me Wil Myers will be here next year

 

Michael Brantley would be alright for a year,  High OBP guy.  

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

Not sure why Cisnero was kept.  Seems a waste of a roster spot.  I would’ve placed more value on Candelario and CastroW than Cisnero.  But I’m an idiot, so there’s that.

Short seems an odd keep, too.

Perhaps keeping Cisneros was Harris reacting to what seems to be a much higher value being given to relievers so far in free agency so the 2.2 million was deemed reasonable. Also the stated interest in our relievers to trade.

[casimir]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Something tells me Wil Myers will be here next year

 

Michael Brantley would be alright for a year,  High OBP guy.  

I can see Myers.  RHH OF, insurance at 1B.  That's probably the kind of short term contract for a player trying to bounce back that seems likely.

Brantley is a darn good LHH bat.  It would seem like he could find better opportunities elsewhere, but who knows.

[SoCalTiger]

I think Harris will add at least one cornerstone player this off season and not just one year fillers. No idea who that might be or how he will obtain them. I don't see him passing on an off season to replace poor players with mediocre ones only to find himself in the same spot next off season. 

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Perhaps keeping Cisneros was Harris reacting to what seems to be a much higher value being given to relievers so far in free agency so the 2.2 million was deemed reasonable. Also the stated interest in our relievers to trade.

Maybe.  I'm just not as impressed with Cisnero as what other folks seem to be.  The walk rate has always been high with the exception of 2020.  I wouldn't say the mirage is the same as Soto, but its in that direction.

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, casimir said:

Maybe.  I'm just not as impressed with Cisnero as what other folks seem to be.  The walk rate has always been high with the exception of 2020.  I wouldn't say the mirage is the same as Soto, but its in that direction.

I don't love tendering Cisnero, but if there is any team that should value depth in terms of pitching, it's this one. Especially with all the injuries last year.

Would have been better to take a flyer on one of the other non-tenders though imo

[Motor City Sonics]

21 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

I think Harris will add at least one cornerstone player this off season and not just one year fillers. No idea who that might be or how he will obtain them. I don't see him passing on an off season to replace poor players with mediocre ones only to find himself in the same spot next off season. 

But I think Harris and his hand-pick evaluators need a chance to see a bunch of prospects up close, the way THEY evaluate talent and that will probably mean a year of wait-and-see.     We don't have a lot to trade to get someone and the free agent class this year is pretty weak.   The best players available are no-shot for the Tigers, and the the drop off is huge.   I think Benintendi would be a great fit but I don't see them landing him.

They just have to get some higher OBP guys.   Justin Turner is that kind of guy, even at 38.  

 

 

[Longgone]

38 minutes ago, casimir said:

Brantley is a darn good LHH bat.  It would seem like he could find better opportunities elsewhere, but who knows.

They already have seven left handed outfielders, I think they're good.

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

could be a move back toward the traditional concept where your utility guys are better defenders. We've gotten used to the fact that Avila had moved away from it.

That makes sense to me for up the middle positions.  When your first stringer goes down, you are generally going to lose some offense no matter what position it is.  You can't afford to also lose defense at a key poisition.  You should also have a bat or two on the bench, but that should be at 1B or corner OF.  

[mtutiger]

I doubt there is any discussion about this, particularly with his hitting struggles and need to improve in that category, but man it would be nice if Torkelson could be slotted in at third base. Feels like that could open more possibilities, even if the options at 1B aren't too much better than 3B.

But not gonna happen and probably shouldnt.

Edited November 19, 2022 by mtutiger

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I don't love tendering Cisnero, but if there is any team that should value depth in terms of pitching, it's this one. Especially with all the injuries last year.

Would have been better to take a flyer on one of the other non-tenders though imo

I agree with your flyer idea, and who knows, maybe Cisnero is on the bubble for that type of transaction.

[Harry]

Trade proposal for conversation:

juan soto

joe Jimenez 

kerry carpenter

for 

Jose Berrios, P we take on salary

Moreno C

Biggio 3rd/2nd 

[Harry]

Gregory Soto, sorry

[HeyAbbott]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

All he’s done is clear some spots and pick up a few lottery tickets.  The cuts were almost administrative—they were very obvious.  Not excited about any of the minor league acquisitions he’s made.

I agree he is just getting started, but I can’t get excited or give him credit for anything yet—moving forward is where things should get interesting.

This is the point. I am pleased that decisions that should have been made, in some cases, years ago, are finally being made. The fastest way to make a mess of any organization is to delay or deny  making obvious decisions swiftly.The Tigers have raised delaying obvious decisions to an art form. Scott Harris is changing that and will change organizational culture for the better if this continues.  He is going to churn the utility grade players like they are butter, and very few (maybe only one?) will be on the roster by opening day.

There are plenty of Tiger fans and likely members of the Tigers organization proper that have been conditioned to accept players like the Castros to be average to better than average ball players, which they obviously are not. Certain notions such as these must be dispelled and exiled from Tigers Nation so that the real work of fixing this franchise can happen.

[casimir]

54 minutes ago, Longgone said:

They already have seven left handed outfielders, I think they're good.

While very true, they could use a bat of Brantley’s ilk in the lineup.  I’d be fine with him as the everyday LF/DH.  I wouldn’t consider Brantley a platoon player.  Maybe I’d bat him lower vs LHP, but I’d be comfortable with him in the lineup vs LHP.  The opposition is probably going to go to a RHP at some point during the game anyway.

As you mention the LHH heavy OF, and knowing Harris’ desire for a RHH OF, it’d be nice if they could find one that can handle all 3 OF spots.  Much easier said than done, but Greene and (squinting) Baddoo are the only CFs currently on the 40.  Granted, it’s only mid November, but there’s room for depth there.