gehringer_2 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, casimir said: While very true, they could use a bat of Brantley’s ilk in the lineup. I’d be fine with him as the everyday LF/DH. I wouldn’t consider Brantley a platoon player. Maybe I’d bat him lower vs LHP, but I’d be comfortable with him in the lineup vs LHP. The opposition is probably going to go to a RHP at some point during the game anyway. As you mention the LHH heavy OF, and knowing Harris’ desire for a RHH OF, it’d be nice if they could find one that can handle all 3 OF spots. Much easier said than done, but Greene and (squinting) Baddoo are the only CFs currently on the 40. Granted, it’s only mid November, but there’s room for depth there. I love Brantley as a player, but he had too much trouble staying on the field even when he was younger and now he's old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 2 hours ago, casimir said: Well, now this is ridiculous. We haven't had a Tiger game thread to throw our anguish around in months. The days are getting shorter. The weather is getting colder. Our families and friends are sick of the extra exposure to us that we would normally be devoting to the Tigers during the regular season. Time to relax? Balderdash. Now is the time of our discontent. Thanks for this reply. It immediately brought to mind the pamphlet "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I love Brantley as a player, but he had too much trouble staying on the field even when he was younger and now he's old. You know, I thought that, too. But he had over 600 PAs in 2018 and 2019, over 500 PAs in 2021. Injuries in 2022, fair to call those out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: This is the point. I am pleased that decisions that should have been made, in some cases, years ago, are finally being made. The fastest way to make a mess of any organization is to delay or deny making obvious decisions swiftly.The Tigers have raised delaying obvious decisions to an art form. Scott Harris is changing that and will change organizational culture for the better if this continues. He is going to churn the utility grade players like they are butter, and very few (maybe only one?) will be on the roster by opening day. There are plenty of Tiger fans and likely members of the Tigers organization proper that have been conditioned to accept players like the Castros to be average to better than average ball players, which they obviously are not. Certain notions such as these must be dispelled and exiled from Tigers Nation so that the real work of fixing this franchise can happen. 1000%. Candy is more of a 50/50 proposition and time will tell, but the definition of insanity is running the Castros out there over and over again and expecting different results. They may not be good next year, but it's not gonna be because of any moves they made yesterday. Time to move on and see if there are better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I respectfully disagree. There were zero surprises for me. And I’ve been underwhelmed with his dumpster diving, including the OF he grabbed yesterday. I’m not concerned—as I outlined, nothing so far has been significant. Now that the roster has been settled, we can start to evaluate moving forward. I'm not complaining about the job Harris is doing so far, and I am definitely giving him a lot of rope, at least a couple years worth, in which he has to demonstrate some level of incompetence before I do start seriously complaining. I don't expect to see that—I'm just setting my personal benchmark for that kind of response. That said, within a limited sense, I'm with you. So far it's been a lot of meh waiver pickups coupled with tenders and non-tenders everyone expected even during the season. Nothing on the roster front has surprised or delighted me just yet. In fact I'm a bit disappointed by the Cisnero tender, based on his advanced age, steadily declining strikeout rate, and sieve-like walk rate. OMMV. Edited November 19, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 3 hours ago, mtutiger said: I doubt there is any discussion about this, particularly with his hitting struggles and need to improve in that category, but man it would be nice if Torkelson could be slotted in at third base. Feels like that could open more possibilities, even if the options at 1B aren't too much better than 3B. But not gonna happen and probably shouldnt. It would be nice, but TORK!'s arm is way too weak for third. Heck, it's among the weakest of those at first, and they practically don't need an arm at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, chasfh said: It would be nice, but TORK!'s arm is way too weak for third. Heck, it's among the weakest of those at first, and they practically don't need an arm at all. So if we have all these biomechanics gurus for pitching staffs would you suppose they could take a crack at helping an IF throw harder? I guess you hear about OF's working on their throwing but it's usually just about footwork and all, you just don't hear much about teams trying to coach non-pitchers to be able to throw harder. Seems curious to me. Whatever, it would be nice it could happen because Spencer's glove looks fine. Edited November 19, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) then they should work on Baddoo's noodle arm Edited November 19, 2022 by RatkoVarda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: then they should work on Baddoo's noodle arm Baddoos arm is less weak than compeletly unpredictable. And he throws like a lot of guys that spend a lot of time in the weight room. No fluidity/elasticity. Edited November 19, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: So if we have all these biomechanics gurus for pitching staffs would you suppose they could take a crack at helping an IF throw harder? I guess you hear about OF's working on their throwing but it's usually just about footwork and all, you just don't hear much about teams trying to coach non-pitchers to be able to throw harder. Seems curious to me. Whatever, it would be nice it could happen because Spencer's glove looks fine. Sure it could happen, but there is no way any amount of biomechanics gurury is going to hike TORK!’s 74mph average throw up to the MLB average of 85mph for third basemen. Anyhow, was it you who came on board with me a week or so ago when I hypothesized that the Drivelining of pitching might be a key reason pitcher injuries have rocketed skyward? If infielders start doing those kinds of drills as well, we might see a rash of TJs among them, too. Edited November 19, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 Baddoo’s average throwing speed is 84.7, which ranks 29th of 40 qualifying left fielders and sits comfortably below the big league average of 87.3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, chasfh said: Baddoo’s average throwing speed is 84.7, which ranks 29th of 40 qualifying left fielders and sits comfortably below the big league average of 87.3. Not sure average throwing speed is the best measure, as on most throws there is not going to be a close play. That said in Baddoo's case it's irrelevant anyway because he can't hit his target whether he throws it hard or not. Velo value is pretty much negated if the receiver has to move any distance away from the tag point to catch the ball. Edited November 19, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Sure it could happen, but there is no way any amount of biomechanics gurury is going to hike TORK!’s 74mph average throw up to the MLB average of 85mph. Besides, wasn’t it you who came on board with me a week or so ago when I hypothesized that the Drivelining of pitching might be a key reason pitcher injuries have rocketed skyward? If infielders start doing those kinds of drills as well, we might see a rash of TJs among them, too. could be, though an IF doesn't make a 100 throws in a game and is not trying to throw breaking balls. It's more a theoretical question though. Pitch coaching does seem to have helped pitchers pick up 3 maybe even in some cases 5 mph. That's not trivial even if it might be enough to help Torkelson in particular. Candelario's arm is no great shakes for a 3B - he could (have) benefit(ed) from little more zip. Looking back past Candy - Lugo et al were just fill-ins while Candelario was at 1st. Castellanos' glove problems were bad enough we never got around to worrying much about his arm which was decent in any case, and before that Cabrera and Inge both had plenty of arm, though Brandon's wasn't always accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 5 hours ago, casimir said: ... and knowing Harris’ desire for a RHH OF, it’d be nice if they could find one that can handle all 3 OF spots. Much easier said than done, but Greene and (squinting) Baddoo are the only CFs currently on the 40. Granted, it’s only mid November, but there’s room for depth there. Too bad Derek Hill and Daz Cameron both flopped miserably... (ducks after mentioning 2 former Tigers unmentionables...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Not sure average throwing speed is the best measure, as on most throws there is not going to be a close play. That said in Baddoo's case it's irrelevant anyway because he can't hit his target whether he throws it hard or not. Velo value is pretty much negated if the receiver has to move any distance away from the tag point to catch the ball. Average throwing stepped does not include non-contesting throws such as tosses into the infield from after routine single. They separate out only to top x throws that have a play attached to them, and are calculated for a player only after an established minimum number of contestable throws for the position. Baddoo is still below average. Be that as it may, to your point, Baddoo is also inconsistent and inaccurate, which we both agree to be true by applying the subjective, anecdotal eye test. Also, for what it’s worth, Statcast also says Baddoo has a bad jump and the routes he takes are also below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: could be, though an IF doesn't make a 100 throws in a game and is not trying to throw breaking balls. It's more a theoretical question though. Pitch coaching does seem to have helped pitchers pick up 3 maybe even in some cases 5 mph. That's not trivial even if it might be enough to help Torkelson in particular. Candelario's arm is no great shakes for a 3B - he could (have) benefit(ed) from little more zip. Looking back past Candy - Lugo et al were just fill-ins while Candelario was at 1st. Castellanos' glove problems were bad enough we never got around to worrying much about his arm which was decent in any case, and before that Cabrera and Inge both had plenty of arm, though Brandon's wasn't always accurate. An infielder doesn’t have to make 100 throws in a game for a 10mph deficit versus average to cost him more outs with late throws than an average infielder would yield over the course of a season. One thing I would like Statcast to start tracking is accuracy of infield throws. Establish a “strike zone” for throws to first, a zone within which a first basemen can comfortably reach for a throw, versus having to stretch too far left or right, or leap way up, or have to come off the bag. Also, throws that make it all the way to first base in the air, or that bounce far enough in front of first so the ball is caught at a comfortable height, versus balls that bounce right at the feet of the first baseman. I assume they’re actively figuring that out, or maybe they already have and just don’t share it publicly at the moment. Statcast could also measure how far in front of the bag a first baseman catches the throw. The longer he stretches, the more inches he shaves off the throw distance, the quicker he catches the ball, the more OAA made during the season. I gotta believe they are working on that one, too. Edited November 20, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 Have a laugh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 5 hours ago, chasfh said: Have a laugh. That is beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Baez’ swing is what I expect mine would look like if I played in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Apropos of nothing, I compiled the list of Tigers non-tenders dating back to 1990. Data pre-1995 is spotty. Year Player 2022 Jeimer Candelario 2022 Harold Castro 2022 Willi Castro 2022 Brendon Davis 2022 Miguel Diaz 2022 Kyle Funkhouser 2022 Michael Papierski 2021 Matthew Boyd 2021 Grayson Greiner 2018 Alex Wilson 2018 James McCann 2017 Bruce Rondon 2015 Neftali Feliz 2015 Al Alburquerque 2012 Daniel Schlereth 2011 Will Rhymes 2010 Zach Miner 2008 Aquilino Lopez 2007 Chad Durbin 2006 Alexis Gomez 2004 Eric Munson 2003 Ben Petrick 2003 Andy Van Hekken 2002 Robert Fick 2002 Julio Santana 2001 Deivi Cruz 1997 Bob Hamelin 1997 Fernando Hernandez 1994 Junior Felix 1994 Gene Harris 1994 Mike Gardiner 1994 Chad Kreuter 1993 Bob MacDonald 1993 Gary Thurman 1992 Mark Carreon 1991 Andy Allanson 1991 Johnny Paredes 1990 Lance McCullers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Apropos of nothing, I compiled the list of Tigers non-tenders dating back to 1990. Data pre-1995 is spotty. Year Player 2022 Jeimer Candelario 2022 Harold Castro 2022 Willi Castro 2022 Brendon Davis 2022 Miguel Diaz 2022 Kyle Funkhouser 2022 Michael Papierski 2021 Matthew Boyd 2021 Grayson Greiner 2018 Alex Wilson 2018 James McCann 2017 Bruce Rondon 2015 Neftali Feliz 2015 Al Alburquerque 2012 Daniel Schlereth 2011 Will Rhymes 2010 Zach Miner 2008 Aquilino Lopez 2007 Chad Durbin 2006 Alexis Gomez 2004 Eric Munson 2003 Ben Petrick 2003 Andy Van Hekken 2002 Robert Fick 2002 Julio Santana 2001 Deivi Cruz 1997 Bob Hamelin 1997 Fernando Hernandez 1994 Junior Felix 1994 Gene Harris 1994 Mike Gardiner 1994 Chad Kreuter 1993 Bob MacDonald 1993 Gary Thurman 1992 Mark Carreon 1991 Andy Allanson 1991 Johnny Paredes 1990 Lance McCullers So, you’re saying we’ve never been hurt by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 52 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: So, you’re saying we’ve never been hurt by this. did anyone on the list other than McCann land a starting line-up again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hzglory Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Apropos of nothing, I compiled the list of Tigers non-tenders dating back to 1990. Data pre-1995 is spotty. Year Player 2022 Jeimer Candelario 2022 Harold Castro 2022 Willi Castro 2022 Brendon Davis 2022 Miguel Diaz 2022 Kyle Funkhouser 2022 Michael Papierski 2021 Matthew Boyd 2021 Grayson Greiner 2018 Alex Wilson 2018 James McCann 2017 Bruce Rondon 2015 Neftali Feliz 2015 Al Alburquerque 2012 Daniel Schlereth 2011 Will Rhymes 2010 Zach Miner 2008 Aquilino Lopez 2007 Chad Durbin 2006 Alexis Gomez 2004 Eric Munson 2003 Ben Petrick 2003 Andy Van Hekken 2002 Robert Fick 2002 Julio Santana 2001 Deivi Cruz 1997 Bob Hamelin 1997 Fernando Hernandez 1994 Junior Felix 1994 Gene Harris 1994 Mike Gardiner 1994 Chad Kreuter 1993 Bob MacDonald 1993 Gary Thurman 1992 Mark Carreon 1991 Andy Allanson 1991 Johnny Paredes 1990 Lance McCullers So in the last 33 years we’ve non-tendered 38 players. 7 (18 pct) of them were this year Edited November 20, 2022 by 4hzglory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Apropos of nothing, I compiled the list of Tigers non-tenders dating back to 1990. Data pre-1995 is spotty. Year Player 2022 Jeimer Candelario 2022 Harold Castro 2022 Willi Castro 2022 Brendon Davis 2022 Miguel Diaz 2022 Kyle Funkhouser 2022 Michael Papierski 2021 Matthew Boyd 2021 Grayson Greiner 2018 Alex Wilson 2018 James McCann 2017 Bruce Rondon 2015 Neftali Feliz 2015 Al Alburquerque 2012 Daniel Schlereth 2011 Will Rhymes 2010 Zach Miner 2008 Aquilino Lopez 2007 Chad Durbin 2006 Alexis Gomez 2004 Eric Munson 2003 Ben Petrick 2003 Andy Van Hekken 2002 Robert Fick 2002 Julio Santana 2001 Deivi Cruz 1997 Bob Hamelin 1997 Fernando Hernandez 1994 Junior Felix 1994 Gene Harris 1994 Mike Gardiner 1994 Chad Kreuter 1993 Bob MacDonald 1993 Gary Thurman 1992 Mark Carreon 1991 Andy Allanson 1991 Johnny Paredes 1990 Lance McCullers Interesting. Any idea how this compares with other teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 46 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: So in the last 33 years we’ve non-tendered 38 players. 7 (18 pct) of them were this year This was my take from that list... A lot of Avila-detritus non-tenders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.