2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[1984Echoes]

17 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

LOL. Complete honesty, nothing would make me happier than to eat that crow.   Here, let me make it easy for you, when that happens, feel free to post the following to me:

 

 

 But I believe that under the present operational strategy, there is a less than 10% chance of that happening...and even that IMO is being generous

I'll have to remember to come back to this...

[Useful Idiot]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

Does that change your narrative?

 

I would love to have tangible reason to change my narrative.    I had hope that the change of blood would reinvigorate the ball club, but the more I see of Harris, I just see him as a coaster...he's gonna talk big, spend little, and throw the chicken bones hoping to cast a magic spell.   And when that doesn't happen, it'll be time for a new new culture.

The Evil Puppeteer is Chris ilitch, IMO,...Avila and Harris are just his front men.

 

Serious question: How close to completion is the urban renewal around Comerica? I have not been to Detroit in years, so I'm completely out of that loop.  But I just have a gut hunch that the value of the franchise will be greatest if it's surrounded by the land of Oz

[CMRivdogs]

Being serious and curious. You've just been named grand poobah of the Tigers. Given the current roster and say a $!00 mil budget. What tangible and realistic moves would you make?

It's easy to talk a big game put you money where your fingers are. 

[RatkoVarda]

3 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Being serious and curious. You've just been named grand poobah of the Tigers. Given the current roster and say a $!00 mil budget. What tangible and realistic moves would you make?

It's easy to talk a big game put you money where your fingers are. 

what's the budget? for CB tax, they are at $133M right now.

they should sign Correa. easily fits into budget, the line up, and has the strike zone skills Harris wants. the price will probably be a lot more than last year when they should have signed him. lowest risk of any SS

 

 

[CMRivdogs]

Just now, RatkoVarda said:

what's the budget? for CB tax, they are at $133M right now.

they should sign Correa. easily fits into budget, the line up, and has the strike zone skills Harris wants. the price will probably be a lot more than last year when they should have signed him. lowest risk of any SS

 

 

I'll go with 133 Mil, especially since we still have MC on the roster. Keep in mind with trades and free agents it takes two to tango. So you need to have tradable commodities and Free Agents willing to commit to DET after the last several years.

I think rebuilding this team is a bit like trying to rehab an old house. (I've been watching too much HGTV lately). Need to take it down to the studs and rewire before adding drywall and nice flooring. 

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

what's the budget? for CB tax, they are at $133M right now.

they should sign Correa. easily fits into budget, the line up, and has the strike zone skills Harris wants. the price will probably be a lot more than last year when they should have signed him. lowest risk of any SS

 

 

But we have Javy.        We best not upset Javy. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

I just don't see the value in the insults some seem to prefer to use to express their disagreement.  I can only guess they envision the act as being some form of "sharktank" designed to intimidate me and bring me under control? (hence the metaphor about trying to put a ring in my nose)

The fact that I was able to rechristen the sharktank, and re-brand it as the monkeycage, and elicit a response, did tickle me, I will admit that

I was originally just hoping for some intelligent conversation.  Then I figured out that you were either incapable or disinterested.  

[casimir]

20 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Being serious and curious. You've just been named grand poobah of the Tigers. Given the current roster and say a $!00 mil budget. What tangible and realistic moves would you make?

It's easy to talk a big game put you money where your fingers are. 

Are we talking $100M to add for the 2023 season, or $100M in total salary commitments?

Mitch Haniger's deal would fit nicely into the $100M budget and addresses an area of need.  I like the timing of the salaries given the timing of Cabrera off of the books as well as possibly Baez and/or Rodriguez also off of the books.  Haniger as the everyday LF/RF*.

This might not be popular, but I would have kept Candelario and rolled the dice on a bounce back season.  That's another $7M-$8M.  Candelario as the everyday 3B.

I'd also go after one of Wil Myers or Trey Mancini as a RHH OF to platoon with Meadows and offer insurance at 1B.  *So, this might need to be accomplished with Mancini in LF and Haniger in RF vs LHPs or Haniger in LF with Myers in RF vs LHPs.  Either way, the RHH bat plays vs LHPs while Meadows sits.  What I don't like about this acquisition is that it doesn't bring a natural CF to give Greene an occasional day off, but that can be accomplished elsewhere.  What kind of contract are they going to require?  I would think they could be had on a one year deal, max out at $7M-$8M?

I'm curious what happens with P Chris Bassitt.  I suspect he becomes the forgotten SP, so to speak, this offseason.  I think teams will look at his age (34 next season) and back away a bit.  Does this keep him at a 3 year deal, maybe with a team/mutual/vesting option for a 4th?  What's his AAV line up at?  This one is tricky, probably goes back to whether we're adding $100M total or $100M in 2023.  My guess is the former, so Bassitt might not happen.  We've got $43M for Haniger, $15M for Candelario and one of Mancini/Myers, so that's $58M.  Its probably unreasonable to expect Bassitt to agree to 3/$42M. 

So maybe go back and start with Haniger and Bassitt, get the Jace Pederson 2/$10M deal and have him platoon at 3B with Kreidler, and try to scoop up a RHH OF that can play CF on the cheap.

And I know this isn't a popular idea, but he's a RP and RP arms can go poof pretty quickly, so what is Lange's value on the market?  Can the Tigers plug a major league position player roster spot that way, young player for young player?

[CMRivdogs]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Are we talking $100M to add for the 2023 season, or $100M in total salary commitments?

Mitch Haniger's deal would fit nicely into the $100M budget and addresses an area of need.  I like the timing of the salaries given the timing of Cabrera off of the books as well as possibly Baez and/or Rodriguez also off of the books.  Haniger as the everyday LF/RF*.

This might not be popular, but I would have kept Candelario and rolled the dice on a bounce back season.  That's another $7M-$8M.  Candelario as the everyday 3B.

I'd also go after one of Wil Myers or Trey Mancini as a RHH OF to platoon with Meadows and offer insurance at 1B.  *So, this might need to be accomplished with Mancini in LF and Haniger in RF vs LHPs or Haniger in LF with Myers in RF vs LHPs.  Either way, the RHH bat plays vs LHPs while Meadows sits.  What I don't like about this acquisition is that it doesn't bring a natural CF to give Greene an occasional day off, but that can be accomplished elsewhere.  What kind of contract are they going to require?  I would think they could be had on a one year deal, max out at $7M-$8M?

I'm curious what happens with P Chris Bassitt.  I suspect he becomes the forgotten SP, so to speak, this offseason.  I think teams will look at his age (34 next season) and back away a bit.  Does this keep him at a 3 year deal, maybe with a team/mutual/vesting option for a 4th?  What's his AAV line up at?  This one is tricky, probably goes back to whether we're adding $100M total or $100M in 2023.  My guess is the former, so Bassitt might not happen.  We've got $43M for Haniger, $15M for Candelario and one of Mancini/Myers, so that's $58M.  Its probably unreasonable to expect Bassitt to agree to 3/$42M. 

So maybe go back and start with Haniger and Bassitt, get the Jace Pederson 2/$10M deal and have him platoon at 3B with Kreidler, and try to scoop up a RHH OF that can play CF on the cheap.

And I know this isn't a popular idea, but he's a RP and RP arms can go poof pretty quickly, so what is Lange's value on the market?  Can the Tigers plug a major league position player roster spot that way, young player for young player?

My original was total budget. I'll allow $150 mil total player budget.

[casimir]

I guess the other thing would be can you trade LHH OFs for something of use?  Can you get the LHH IF or a RHH CF in exchange of a Baddoo or Carpenter?

[casimir]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

My original was total budget. I'll allow $150 mil total player budget.

Per season?

[RatkoVarda]

17 minutes ago, casimir said:

And I know this isn't a popular idea, but he's a RP and RP arms can go poof pretty quickly, so what is Lange's value on the market?  Can the Tigers plug a major league position player roster spot that way, young player for young player?

I hope Harris is shopping Lange. Makes sense to move him now if you can get a potential core position player.

[Useful Idiot]

36 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I was originally just hoping for some intelligent conversation.  Then I figured out that you were either incapable or disinterested.  

Lets just say my initial impression of you was that you were looking for someone to inflate your ego. And I just didn't come here looking for that job. And I don't mean that as slam or provocation ,...just that since we are now being honest, etc

Edited December 12, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Tiger337]

20 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Lets just say my initial impression of you was that you were looking for someone to inflate your ego. And I just didn't come here looking for that job. And I don't mean that as slam or provocation ,...just that since we are now being honest, etc

LOL,  You used to be on the old board? Right?  Do you have the courage to reveal yourself?   

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

Serious question: How close to completion is the urban renewal around Comerica? I have not been to Detroit in years, so I'm completely out of that loop.  But I just have a gut hunch that the value of the franchise will be greatest if it's surrounded by the land of Oz

As Rob had oft made pointed reference to, the Ilitch org had a lot of grand plans on the table when Little Caesar's went in and so far almost nothing has come to fruition. Apropos of your question though, there were announcements last week that some work in 'District Detroit' is now supposed to begin. Skepticism is warranted.

OTOH, there has been a lot of residential development around the ball park going up John R, and to the east, they are going to fill in I-375, UM/Gilbert/Ilitch are going to develop one of the blocks on Cass,  the  city's first large new building in years is rising on the Hudson's site, and recently the Penobscot Bldg ownership finally changed hands. The point of mentioning this is that at its nadir, virtually every old Detroit landmark bldg was in disrepair and declining. But almost all have now been brough back, the last three big ones were Book Tower, which Gilbert has put a ton of $$ into and is close to reopening, Michigan Central, which of course was reduced to a hulk and that Ford is completely rennovating, and lastly the Penobscot, which never got to the point of closure but where the ownership disregard had left the building almost unrentable. Having these major buildings back in productive service is huge for the city, not only because they generate tax revenue, but because as each one is rehabbed it decreases the overhang of low quality/cost rental space and bids up  the value of the whole business district. And of course no-one was going to build anything new downtown until the empty buildings were full again.

Its the life of the buildings in the business district that is the ulitmate pull for downtown residential development. The latter can't continue without the former.  Iif nothing bad happens (e.g. another pandemic) I would think the area around the ballpark could be peaking in another 10 yrs.

We can fairly bag on Ilitch for the lack of development around Little Caesar's so far, but TBF, the old Man's (and Ford's) commitment to putting the sports venues back into mid town probably had a lot to do with giving other developers like Gilbert the confidence to take on the projects they have. It all goes together. My memories of downtown stretch back to the glory days of the Sheraton Cadillac hotel, the Christman Village on the 12th floor at Hudsons - right through to going to school downtown in the 70's after the riot burnouts and the following years of collapse. It hasn't recovered to where it was in the 50's/60's, because Detroit will never be the richest city in the country like it was then (pretty close anyway), but downtown has come back a looong way from where it was at bottom. 

Unfortunately, the recipe for downtown is actually simpler than for the thousands of residential blocks around the city with only one or two houses left on them.....

[RatkoVarda]

I dont understand how MIL did this. ???

 

[theroundsquare]

Bassitt to the BJs

Edited December 12, 2022 by theroundsquare
i can't type

[Longgone]

4 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

Basically,   I feel that the Ilitch brain trust has been rubbing it's azz in our faces, since 2017.  And members here  insulting me for being observant, really isn't having the effect many of you might be supposing?

This isnt observance, it's ignorance. Avila had a plan, it was unsuccessful, but there is no evidence he wasn't given ample  resources to fulfill his plan. The Tiger's payroll, right now, is right in the middle of the pack, again, not a sign of penury for a club in the smaller half of market size, and you can expect it to go up. 

The new regime has been in place for literally weeks, and already you assume your baseless assumptions apply.

you make baseless, factless, malformed statements, and then whine when anyone calls you on them, and can't seem to understand why no one would want to engage with you.

[Useful Idiot]

9 minutes ago, Longgone said:

This isnt observance, it's ignorance. Avila had a plan, it was unsuccessful

I don't think I would have been quite so harsh on you, but as they say, confession is good for the soul, so I respect your frankness.

 

13 minutes ago, Longgone said:

. The Tiger's payroll, right now, is right in the middle of the pack, again, not a sign of penury for a club in the smaller half of market size, and you can expect it to go up. 

 

Seriously you must realize the only reason Miggy is still on the roster is because no one would take him...And I mean going back to the big purge starting in 2017.  If they could have dealt him, that far back,  they would have. So claiming his $32M/yr on the books is evidence that this team is not "cheap", is fanciful self indulgence.

[Longgone]

2 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Seriously you must realize the only reason Miggy is still on the roster is because no one would take him...And I mean going back to the big purge starting in 2017.  If they could have dealt him, that far back,  they would have. So claiming his $32M/yr on the books is evidence that this team is not "cheap", is fanciful self indulgence.

Add this to the list of dumb things you have said.

[Useful Idiot]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

LOL,  You used to be on the old board? Right?  Do you have the courage to reveal yourself?   

Ask your Mom

[Useful Idiot]

8 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Add this to the list of dumb things you have said.

Well you want to act like the $93 million they have under contract proves they are generous, take Miggy's $32M away from that, and you have what they would be spending if they could have dealt him to someone else...of course that assumes we could have dealt him without paying his salary anyway, which is why he is still here

 

SO YEAH  effectively  the Tigers at $61 million/yr...what studs!!

Edited December 12, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Useful Idiot]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

 

We can fairly bag on Ilitch for the lack of development around Little Caesar's so far,

Well, what I anticipate is that Ilitch will want to make the Tigers competitive in time to sell, and that the value of a winning Tigers team will be greatest as the centerpiece of a redeveloped neigborhood  (Rather than sell in a slum)

So, if you say 10 years, then I think 8 is about where he'll be willing to finally be serious about a championship

Edited December 12, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Hongbit]

You aren’t useful.

[Toddwert]

i'd voice my concerns but i dont want to be lump with that guy