Longgone Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 3 things: 1, I don't know if y'all have noticed, but Avila is gone, so you can quit bashing him and move on. 2, Ilitch hasn't restricted spending, rest assured, the Tigers will have a budget at, or above, what is prudent for their market.I 3, you all act like bidding on premium free agents is the only way to become competitive. Those types of free agents are the siding and roofing of roster construction, there are many other avenues to building a consistent, successful franchise. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I'm just saying that knowing Miggy's 32 million is going away that you can't bring in ONE bona fide MLB hitter to this team. Not one? Come on, man. Not asking for much. I know we weren't in on the really big guys and all those teams will regret what they've done, but we have a team of AAAA players and has-beens. I hope they can do wonders with Tork and fix Baez and I hope Meadows can return to his average self. I'm like Red at the end of Shawshank.................I hope, but hope is a dangerous word. and considering how much weaker the free agent crop is next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Longgone said: 3 things: 1, I don't know if y'all have noticed, but Avila is gone, so you can quit bashing him and move on. 2, Ilitch hasn't restricted spending, rest assured, the Tigers will have a budget at, or above, what is prudent for their market.I 3, you all act like bidding on premium free agents is the only way to become competitive. Those types of free agents are the siding and roofing of roster construction, there are many other avenues to building a consistent, successful franchise. 1. we know hes gone doesnt mean our feelings about the wasted years and talent havent disappeared 2. we dont really know either way 3. its a way to be competitive in last then 5 years that rebuilding the farm system alone is going to take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Longgone said: 3, you all act like bidding on premium free agents is the only way to become competitive. Those types of free agents are the siding and roofing of roster construction, there are many other avenues to building a consistent, successful franchise. Cannot be emphasized enough. They can't free agent their way out of the hole they are in... improvement from players, particularly the young ones,, currently on this roster is a necessary condition for improvement. Edited December 17, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 I don't regret "missing out" on any of the premium free agent signings so far. If you want to put 9 good players in the lineup you have to develop 7 of them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Toddwert said: 3. its a way to be competitive in last then 5 years that rebuilding the farm system alone is going to take It is? Carlos Correa, great as he is, is maybe worth 4-5 additional wins. On a 66 win team, that doesn't get you there, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Longgone said: 3 things: 1, I don't know if y'all have noticed, but Avila is gone, so you can quit bashing him and move on. 2, Ilitch hasn't restricted spending, rest assured, the Tigers will have a budget at, or above, what is prudent for their market.I 3, you all act like bidding on premium free agents is the only way to become competitive. Those types of free agents are the siding and roofing of roster construction, there are many other avenues to building a consistent, successful franchise. Unless you can get a premium player at a relatively young age (which usually means late 20s), free agents are one of the worst ways to a build a team. The top free agents are usually old and expensive. They are most useful to teams that are already good and need one or two more players to get them to the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Unless you can get a premium player at a relatively young age (which usually means late 20s), free agents are one of the worst ways to a build a team. The top free agents are usually old and expensive. They are most useful to teams that are already good and need one or two more players to get them to the playoffs. because hoping and praying that draft picks will turn out to be stars has worked so well ..... Im not saying you make your whole line up out of free agents but it seems like you need to add something to a horrible offense last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Toddwert said: because hoping and praying that draft picks will turn out to be stars has worked so well ..... It's kinda hard to determine how well it has worked under this new regime considering it has only been in place for a couple of months. Hate to be sparky, but maybe we should give them a chance to draft and evaluate talent before suggest that it isnt working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, mtutiger said: It's kinda hard to determine how well it has worked under this new regime considering it has only been in place for a couple of months. Hate to be sparky, but maybe we should give them a chance to draft and evaluate talent before suggest that it isnt working. thats fine but Harris went out of his way to say this isnt a rebuilt when clearly it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Toddwert said: thats fine but Harris went out of his way to say this isnt a rebuilt when clearly it is You know this on December 17? Maybe wait and see what he puts on the field in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, Toddwert said: because hoping and praying that draft picks will turn out to be stars has worked so well ..... Im not saying you make your whole line up out of free agents but it seems like you need to add something to a horrible offense last season I always said the complete tear down and sole dependence on high draft picks was a bad idea. I'd like to see some trades. The best opportunity right now might be to trade relievers and lower level prospects for players who are major league ready. Given the crazy market for pitchers right now, maybe they get a major league hitter for Rodriquez. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 I think Ilitch will spend within reason but he wants results. Watching Baez under perform, Schoop crash landing, EROD quitting on the team and Meadows essentially not playing may have led to Chris not trusting Al with his money and therefore his resulting DFA. The question is just how big of a market is Detroit ? Yes the attendance is good when the team plays well and actually quite good watching losing teams as well. But Detroit is not a robust economy so I guess the main question is how profitable are the Tigers radio and TV rights ? Isn't that the largest source of income or am I mistaken ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Longgone said: 3 things: 1, I don't know if y'all have noticed, but Avila is gone, so you can quit bashing him and move on. 2, Ilitch hasn't restricted spending, rest assured, the Tigers will have a budget at, or above, what is prudent for their market.I 3, you all act like bidding on premium free agents is the only way to become competitive. Those types of free agents are the siding and roofing of roster construction, there are many other avenues to building a consistent, successful franchise. 2. Ilitch spent on Eduardo and Baez last year, and others, when it looked like we might break through. All this whining about Chris not spending is total BS. When the team is competitive and ready to make a move to win playoff games, he'll spend. He's already proven that. 3. These free agents aren't siding and roofing. For the most part. They are mostly sheds and outhouses. Again, all the whining about not spending money on bandaids, outhouses, sheds and busted condoms is ridiculous. I wouldn't spend money on this team even if it was someone else's money. Bandaids (Boyd and Lorenzen) to cover booboos, fine. But the primary purpose in 2023 is to fix all our broken parts - pitchers, prospects, hitting and development coaches. And Harris sifting through waiver wires and other inexpensive pickups to see if he can find a few parts that can stick. That's it. When they get everything fixed and we can figure out who is a building block and who is not (and can be traded away) and what holes need to be filled in 2024 (NOT 2023...), then we can talk about spending money in the offseason 2023-24. I don't see it happening this offseason and furthermore I don't see any REASON to spend this offseason. I fully expect us to make a run at the Playoffs in 2024... so at that point (next offseason) I would be looking to shop. And it might be trades shopping, not FA shopping. We'll see. But 2023 is a lost season. Get used to it, because that's not changing. And no FA signing is going to change that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Chris Ilitch also approved 10/270 for Correa which, as the Giants just proved, was exactly the right market value for a 10 year deal for that particular player. There is no evidence at all to support the claim that he will not spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Longgone said: You know this on December 17? Maybe wait and see what he puts on the field in April. Not even April. We already HAVE a boatload of high draft picks. We don't need to be on a 5-year draft & development timeframe because those guys are ALREADY HERE (I'm not bagging on you Longgone... I know it's not you making these statements, it's others on the board... I was just using your post because of the April timing... I have a different theory on that): Harris and Hinch and all the other king's men they hired need to fix broken parts first. Because if they were ALL miraculously fixed - Mize, Manning, Skubal, Eduardo, Faedo, Wentz, Brieske, Lange, Soto, Rogers, Torkelson, Greene, Matthews, Baez, Carpenter, Baddoo, Kreidler - and with a second wave coming shortly (Olson, Madden, Dingler, Keith, Wenceel, Parker, Malloy)... they would have at least the BEGINNINGS of a competitive team. But a lot of these guys... I don't think we know what we have/ don't have/ has been fixed... until the END of next season. In September 2023... I'll tell you what kind of team we have for 2023, where the holes are, and where/ how I think Harris fixes those holes. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: I think Ilitch will spend within reason but he wants results. Watching Baez under perform, Schoop crash landing, EROD quitting on the team and Meadows essentially not playing may have led to Chris not trusting Al with his money and therefore his resulting DFA. The question is just how big of a market is Detroit ? Yes the attendance is good when the team plays well and actually quite good watching losing teams as well. But Detroit is not a robust economy so I guess the main question is how profitable are the Tigers radio and TV rights ? Isn't that the largest source of income or am I mistaken ? when they were good they had high ratings .. I have no idea about what the media market is valued at https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2013/07/detroit_tigers_have_highest_te.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Chris Ilitch also approved 10/270 for Correa which, as the Giants just proved, was exactly the right market value for a 10 year deal for that particular player. There is no evidence at all to support the claim that he will not spend. Just as an aside... Wasn't it 10 years $295 mill? I thought he was trying to keep under a $30 mill AAV if I remember correctly. My memory sucks though... but I thought it was $295 mill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Toddwert said: thats fine but Harris went out of his way to say this isnt a rebuilt when clearly it is It's not a rebuild. It's a Repair & Fix 'em back up job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I always said the complete tear down and sole dependence on high draft picks was a bad idea. I'd like to see some trades. The best opportunity right now might be to trade relievers and lower level prospects for players who are major league ready. Given the crazy market for pitchers right now, maybe they get a major league hitter for Rodriquez. I don't think we NEED to trade away Soto or Lange or Eduardo... However... If it's "an offer we can't refuse", then I'm on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: This town is so ready to get behind someone. Thankfully Michigan football got good and filled that void, but its not the same as the whole area getting behind a team named DETROIT. This has been worse than the 70s and the 70s were awful. F Michigan. Go Lions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Not even April. We already HAVE a boatload of high draft picks. We don't need to be on a 5-year draft & development timeframe because those guys are ALREADY HERE (I'm not bagging on you Longgone... I know it's not you making these statements, it's others on the board... I was just using your post because of the April timing... I have a different theory on that): Harris and Hinch and all the other king's men they hired need to fix broken parts first. Because if they were ALL miraculously fixed - Mize, Manning, Skubal, Eduardo, Faedo, Wentz, Brieske, Lange, Soto, Rogers, Torkelson, Greene, Matthews, Baez, Carpenter, Baddoo, Kreidler - and with a second wave coming shortly (Olson, Madden, Dingler, Keith, Wenceel, Parker, Malloy)... they would have at least the BEGINNINGS of a competitive team. But a lot of these guys... I don't think we know what we have/ don't have/ has been fixed... until the END of next season. In September 2023... I'll tell you what kind of team we have for 2023, where the holes are, and where/ how I think Harris fixes those holes. Just my 2 cents. sounds like they should have kept Al according to you everything was going fine. Edited December 17, 2022 by Toddwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Toddwert said: sounds like they should have kept Al according to you everything was going fine. No, that's NOT what I said. Harris needs to fix all the broken parts/ mistakes Avila made. But... It would be HILARIOUS if 90% of our next playoff team was Avila parts...! I would definitely LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: It would be HILARIOUS if 90% of our next playoff team was Avila parts...! I would definitely LOL. It does happen. Taken together '21 and '22 could be taken to predict either that the Tigers will be terrible because 21 was all outliers, or they will bounce back big time because '22 was all outliers ---- or anything in between. Skulbal might be back in June, might not be back at all, etc. But despite not being able to predict what our up and down holdover players do, we can hold Harris to a standard where more minor league players keep improving their skills (and TBF some of that did happen last season - Lipcius, Perez, Meadows, Keith, etc) and the trade moves made at MLB level actually do improve the overal future WAR in the org even if in small doses. Edited December 17, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Yeah - Hosmer is not a bad baseball player, he's just not the player SD paid to get. At 32 ie might have a year or two left to bridge a gap. But the Tigers have left themselves in a box by not maintaining Tork's flexibility to at least fill in at 3rd and Cabrera stuck at DH. If you had some flexibility to swing Tork to third maybe once a week against a heavy LHH team, and DH was open, you could carry an insurance policy like Hosmer, but right now, you are in a situation where if Torkelson starts to hit, you have no place to give a Hosmer ABs at all. The reason they're probably not going to play TORK! at third base is because he was terrible at it when they tried him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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