4hzglory Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Toddwert said: Im not writing them off i want them to get better .... you guys are the ones who say its already a lost season No season is a lost season before it starts. 2021 was considered lost by May 1 and look what happened. It takes a whole lot of ifs, but if Meadows and Baez revert to near career norms and Tork hits like he did through 3 levels of the minors, Greene improves, 1 of Baddoo or Carpenter progresses and Schoop, Kreidler, Lipscious, or Malloy is league average offensively, suddenly the offense doesn't look so bad. You can go through the pitching staff the same way. Is it likely? No, but the offseason isn't close to over and there is a path, albeit a very, very, extremely miniscule path, if no further moves were made. Best of all, we still play in one of the worst divisions in baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I dont know if it's a lost season or not.... they play in the worst division in the sport after all, so may be there is a tail risk they can win it if a lot of things go right. The point I'm continually trying to make here is that if it doesn't end up a lost season and they start to progress toward or even past .500, it's largely gonna be because of improvements on the roster as it already exists. It wouldn't because of individual free agent signings, and certainly not someone on the level of Brandon Drury dont forget that they are playing outside the division more this season ....the AL central is going to look so bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Toddwert said: we've also been told for years that they were adding more and more analytic staff and making more modern changes to other area That takes time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: No season is a lost season before it starts. 2021 was considered lost by May 1 and look what happened. It takes a whole lot of ifs, but if Meadows and Baez revert to near career norms and Tork hits like he did through 3 levels of the minors, Greene improves, 1 of Baddoo or Carpenter progresses and Schoop, Kreidler, Lipscious, or Malloy is league average offensively, suddenly the offense doesn't look so bad. You can go through the pitching staff the same way. Is it likely? No, but the offseason isn't close to over and there is a path, albeit a very, very, extremely miniscule path, if no further moves were made. Best of all, we still play in one of the worst divisions in baseball. Spot on. I would argue that all the angst about the offense crowds out how the injuries to the young pitchers, particularly Skubal, impacts their outlook for next year. And why, despite the precieved strength of the group over the offense, they needed to add a couple of starters on short term deals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 I realize that Brandon Drury has somehow become a lightning rod, or the straw that broke the camel's back, for this offseason (so far), but everyone does realize he sucks, correct? He has only hit as a Cincinnati Red, basically playing in a ball park with high school dimensions. Look at his stats once he was dealt to San Diego last season. He was abysmal from 2017-2021. I've attached the link to his Baseball Reference profile. See for yourself and then tell me that we really missed out: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drurybr01.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 And, if you are frustrated with this offseason, you can blame Al Avila, for leaving this team barren of talent, as well as Scott Harris for not being fast enough to make changes, or not jumping into the fray giving out really bad free agent contracts. I don't see how Chris Ilitch is to blame--he was the one that initiated the change in the front office. And he has demonstrated that he will spend. It's really lazy and uninformed to keep blaming he guy. And I've met him in person and thought he was a bit of a douche, but I'm trying to be objective about this situation. Lastly, if you think back to the Dombrowki era, the Tigers were almost never included in rumors, because Dave kept things very close to the vest. Perhaps Harris is the same? Just because you don't have Jon Heyman erroneously mentioning us in any speculation, doesn't mean that Harris and co. aren't being active. They are just being smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 I found this interesting. We have ben talking about if Comerica appeals to pitchers and might turn off batters in free agency. For Lorenzen, the answer appears to be yes. Needs to be a balance, and overly simplistic, but if so they should be more focused on position players in the system, and more focused on pitching in free agency. Playing at spacious Comerica Park will help. “That was one of Scott’s selling points,” Lorenzen said. “We’re hoping those three-run homers stay in this year. That’s a big deal. Nice and cold. Big ballpark. Doesn’t sound fun for hitters, so I want to be a part of it.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I don't see how Chris Ilitch is to blame--he was the one that initiated the change in the front office. And he has demonstrated that he will spend. It's really lazy and uninformed to keep blaming he guy. And I've met him in person and thought he was a bit of a douche, but I'm trying to be objective about this situation. Chris isn't innocent and made a multitude of mistakes that led us to this point in terms of extending Avila and keeping him around as long as he did before actually pulling the trigger and removing him. The dude is also a PR nightmare and can't give a good press conference to save his life... and that sets aside all the off the field/District Detroit stuff that people don't like the guy for. There's just a lot of inherent things about the guy that make him an unlikable figure. But one can acknowledge the flaws while acknowledging some of the successes. That his team managed to outkick the coverage in terms of PBO hire; they basically exceeded expectations in hiring a guy that most didn't even think was an option, which is a pretty big success considering how disastrous 2022 was and the mess that Avila left behind. And, prior to 2022 when it looked like this team could theoretically have a chance to compete, he went out and spent a bunch of money. We can argue whether the guys were the right guys, but contracts were in fact issued. I don't like Chris, but our fanbase treats the guy like he is Bob Nutting, and the evidence doesn't really suggest that is accurate. Edited December 21, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 hours ago, mtutiger said: It really should go without saying that everyone who is a Tigers fan hates the situation they are in and wants to be out of it. But for whatever reason, not flying off the handle every time a free agent is signed by a team not named the Detroit Tigers gets perceived as not caring. The reality is that people can want the situation to end while disagreeing with the best way for it to end. Sorry, but this post cannot be taken seriously without some capitalization or cursing or mocking or ellipses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Mike Illitch bought the Tigers for roughtly $85 million. The team would sell for over a BILLION dollars now. Just to clarify.......85 million seconds would be about 2 2/3 years, a billion seconds is over 31 years. That's a hell of a profit. Sell the fucking team, Chris. Everyone knows you don't give a shit. 4 hours ago, mtutiger said: Honest question: can you express in detail who you would have signed that has gone off the board thus far, and at what price/years. Thanks. The silent response is deafening, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Quit yer bitchin’ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 I'm not disappointed at all. I have yet to see a player signed this offseason that I would want, at the price that was paid in AAV and term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroundsquare Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just in time for Feliciano to sing ♫ Feliz Navidad ♫ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I'm not disappointed at all. I have yet to see a player signed this offseason that I would want, at the price that was paid in AAV and term. I would have liked Mitch Haniger. Believe he got a reasonable 3-year deal. RH hitting OF with some power. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Tenacious D said: I would have liked Mitch Haniger. Believe he got a reasonable 3-year deal. RH hitting OF with some power. Agree. I think I'd add Bassitt to the wish list, although I understand concern about his age and maybe the fact that he's only been around/above 150 IP in 3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 29 minutes ago, casimir said: The silent response is deafening, isn't it? or i thought it was pointless but nice try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Toddwert said: or i thought it was pointless but nice try Interesting. Are you answering for MCS now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, casimir said: Interesting. Are you answering for MCS now? well you didnt name who you were talking to ... so sorry and btw..... Conforto $17 Million for 2 years Edited December 21, 2022 by Toddwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I would have liked Mitch Haniger. Believe he got a reasonable 3-year deal. RH hitting OF with some power. 100%, Mitch made a lot of sense IMO if it was ever a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Actually I am ok with the moves so far for the MLB team: Boyd, Lorenzen, Ibanez and even Feliciano (also Malloy). The upper management has improved it would seem along with scouting, player development, conditioning, the hitting philosophy and other areas where there is potentially upgraded personnel coming aboard. My concerns, and it may be early still, are with the depth of the MLB team. Injuries are going to happen. Right now we do not even have a complete team to put on the field. When (not if) an injury or two occurs we currently have no depth. I actually do think the team has a chance to still be decent - provided some smart moves are made. We are not in a strong division really. Two years ago we came on strong and were thought to be turning the corner (then injuries and down years took place). No one gave Cleveland a chance at this time last year and for that matter well on into May - but it happened. There is some time still. Some players to had - be it FA and/or trade. However, if the mindset is to 'Come to Detroit to get better' that IMHO does not attract many 'position' players (aka Comerica Park, listen to Lorenzan Presser). Veterans know what coaches are for. Many hire their own personal coaches in several areas. Not every player need be 24 or under for this team to get better. If that were the case then just follow minor league teams - but the Tigers are a MLB team. BTW, we will get even more 'prospect' talent in the next draft, ex 3 picks in the top 46? We just have to start developing players (esp positional) regardless and that should be perhaps the organization's main focus - but many of us would not mind a few more MLB players as well along the way. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Toddwert said: well you didnt name who you were talking to ... so sorry and btw..... Conforto $17 Million for 2 years I think that's a good deal for Conforto if he returns healthy. But the question becomes his lefty bat and the numerous lefty bats already in the OF. But I guess they could deal away from the excess LHH OFs to try to address a weakness. Edited December 21, 2022 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, casimir said: I think that's a good deal for Conforto. But the question becomes his lefty bat and the numerous lefty bats already in the OF. But I guess they could deal away from the excess LHH OFs to try to address a weakness. is that a real problem or is that something us fans are more worried about? and my crazy wild dream would be trade Erod... one our top Pitching prospects or and a Postion Prospect for Devers and try like hell to sign him for something in the area 30 million for 10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Toddwert said: and my crazy wild dream would be trade Erod... one our top Pitching prospects or and a Postion Prospect for Devers and try like hell to sign him for something in the area 30 million for 10 years if the cost of Devers was 10/300 the Red Sox would have already signed him; you are about 4 years and 100M short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, RatkoVarda said: if the cost of Devers was 10/300 the Red Sox would have already signed him; you are about 4 years and 100M short maybe its more then a money issue with Boston.... I was just throwing out numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Toddwert said: is that a real problem or is that something us fans are more worried about? and my crazy wild dream would be trade Erod... one our top Pitching prospects or and a Postion Prospect for Devers and try like hell to sign him for something in the area 30 million for 10 years Is Conforto's health or LHH bat a real problem? Neither are ideal, but if he's healthy, he's a better option than whomever else is slated for LF. I know some folks want to see Carpenter or Baddoo in LF, but a healthy Conforto is a better player than either. We'll see what Conforto actually signs for. 2/$17M seems cheap for him, but I don't know how the injury factors into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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