2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[HeyAbbott]

22 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

My concern is not parity, but rather too many teams in the playoffs!  I think expanded playoffs ruin the entire essence of a baseball season which I view as a marathon. I am not overly concerned with parity.  I like that there are good teams and bad teams.  I like dynasties and like when dynasty teams get defeated.  If every team has the same chance, it makes the season seem random.  I know others don't necessarily share that view.  

There is no competitive sense to a 162 game season with expanded playoffs.

[Tenacious D]

19 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The flip side to that is that a big part of their 66 wins last year was an abnormal about of injuries and guys having bad seasons. And they have three guys coming into the next season (Meadows, Turnbull and Rogers) who were non-entities on the 2022 team and one expects they will contribute more than they did in 2022, which on its own makes them a better ballclub.

Maybe 2022 was almost the inverse of 2021.... just as maybe it wasn't realistic guys to repeat performances from 2021, water can always find its level in 2023 versus a year like 2022 when nothing went right.

I also think of the AB’s that went to Reyes, Candy and the Castro boys as addition through subtraction 

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Yeah, there's definitely something about the years thing with this market.... even Tucker Barnhart is getting two years lol

The years have long been more important than the AAV, because years mean not only job security, but relevance.

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It was due to an injury.  It's not like he mysteriously lost his skills.  Still, they need to be really confident that he is completely recovered after his time off.   

Yes, I know. I meant "took the year off" to be literal, not figurative.

And yet: still 2/38, including an out.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The years have long been more important than the AAV, because years mean not only job security, but relevance.

With respect to Tucker, I saw someone point out how his 2 year deal with the Cubs gets him to 10 years of service time (assuming he's on the roster for the required amount of time).... 

Another one of those things that generally gets lost in these discussions about free agency, and I'm sure that was a factor in any negotiation he had.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

With respect to Tucker, I saw someone point out how his 2 year deal with the Cubs gets him to 10 years of service time (assuming he's on the roster for the required amount of time).... 

Another one of those things that generally gets lost in these discussions about free agency, and I'm sure that was a factor in any negotiation he had.

It may have been, at least from his side, although it almost looks as though in this market, if you're not getting two years, you're not doing it right.

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

There is no competitive sense to a 162 game season with expanded playoffs.

I noticed that my thinking about baseball has shifted over the years. I no longer think of the sport in terms of the regular season being a single competition to be won or lost in the playoffs, but more like a many episode TV season. The corolllary is that the playoffs are just an annual tournament that for all intents and purposes can be totally divorced from the regular season entertainment value, and where I'm indifferent to who or how many get in other than the Tigers and about which my main concern is that the quality of the play not be ruined by games that end up being played in blizzards.

Edited December 23, 2022 by gehringer_2

[HeyAbbott]

I think that this is probably a 60 -63 win team so far this for 2023. But, when one is looking at a team that has so few at least average MLB position players on the 40 man, what can one expect? There are 3 position players that are at least average, the rest are all sub replacement level. Play the kids, Let's find out if 2 Meadows are better than one. Let's see if Wenceel Perez is ready for prime time. Let the parade begin.

[mtutiger]

12 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

I think that this is probably a 60 -63 win team so far this for 2023. But, when one is looking at a team that has so few at least average MLB position players on the 40 man, what can one expect? There are 3 position players that are at least average, the rest are all sub replacement level. Play the kids, Let's find out if 2 Meadows are better than one. Let's see if Wenceel Perez is ready for prime time. Let the parade begin.

This is more of the glass half empty view, but I almost feel that if it happened it would be more due to pitching than position players.... just as a lot of guys underperformed on the position player side, they maybe did get some overperformance from the pitchers.

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

I think that this is probably a 60 -63 win team so far this for 2023. But, when one is looking at a team that has so few at least average MLB position players on the 40 man, what can one expect? There are 3 position players that are at least average, the rest are all sub replacement level. Play the kids, Let's find out if 2 Meadows are better than one. Let's see if Wenceel Perez is ready for prime time. Let the parade begin.

I kind of wonder if Perez is the LHH IF.  And if he doesn’t show MLB ready in spring, fine, he goes to Toledo and they just go with Clemens/Kreidler along with Baez and Schoop.

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, casimir said:

I kind of wonder if Perez is the LHH IF.  And if he doesn’t show MLB ready in spring, fine, he goes to Toledo and they just go with Clemens/Kreidler along with Baez and Schoop.

I suspect it's more likely that they bring in someone else, even from the bargain bin (ie. Edwin Rios, Brian Anderson), over just rolling with hoping Perez is ready.

Maybe some of it depends on whether they are looking at trades as well. But I don't believe it'll just be Kriedler/Clemens and wouldn't be a fan of it if that's how they pursued it.

[alex]

22 minutes ago, casimir said:

I kind of wonder if Perez is the LHH IF.  And if he doesn’t show MLB ready in spring, fine, he goes to Toledo and they just go with Clemens/Kreidler along with Baez and Schoop.

IMHO, there will be a couple/few positional player additions before (or even during ST). Yes, it has been perhaps frustrating from a position player side in terms of additions - but SHarris strikes me as having a plan and that included positional player additions via Trades and or a couple FAs.

Sure there may not be any 'needle' movers (on the surface) remaining (in FAs) but they are not going in with WPerez, RKreidler, KClemens, JRogers, PMeadows,  etc. on the MLB roster when they more than likely all need AAA time themselves.

The team is not 'tanking' and with the new draft order in place it makes no sense. Sure the likes of BAnderson, ERios, JProfar, GSancez, MGarver, AMcCutchen, BDuvall, AJPollack, TPham, JSegura, etc. are not 'exciting' per say but any two could still help win games while youngsters gain time at AAA - and a trade or two may be had as well for a younger player (and even a vet if willing to take on salary).

Then towards the midway point of the season much will be reevaluated. Who has developed? who is behind? who could be moved? added? etc.

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, alex said:

Sure there may not be any 'needle' movers (on the surface) remaining (in FAs) but they are not going in with WPerez, RKreidler, KClemens, JRogers, PMeadows,  etc. on the MLB roster when they more than likely all need AAA time themselves.

The thing about Wenceel - and I like him and think hiss rebound as a prospect is legit - is that he still comes with injury concerns as well. 

If you kinda know what you have in Clemens (ie. not good at all) and, while the jury is out on Kreidler things didn't exactly look stellar on that front, I don't think it's likely that they pin all the hopes on Perez to break camp with the team when there are other options to explore still on the market.

Edited December 23, 2022 by mtutiger

[casimir]

26 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I suspect it's more likely that they bring in someone else, even from the bargain bin (ie. Edwin Rios, Brian Anderson), over just rolling with hoping Perez is ready.

Maybe some of it depends on whether they are looking at trades as well. But I don't believe it'll just be Kriedler/Clemens and wouldn't be a fan of it if that's how they pursued it.

Not to parse words, but “hope” sticks out at me.  I wouldn’t think they are going out anyone on the roster and hope they perform.  I would think they feel confident that a player can perform or a player is old enough in terms of contract/age that it’s time to perform.  Perez is only 23, so no need to “hope” he is MLB ready.

[casimir]

26 minutes ago, alex said:

IMHO, there will be a couple/few positional player additions before (or even during ST). Yes, it has been perhaps frustrating from a position player side in terms of additions - but SHarris strikes me as having a plan and that included positional player additions via Trades and or a couple FAs.

Sure there may not be any 'needle' movers (on the surface) remaining (in FAs) but they are not going in with WPerez, RKreidler, KClemens, JRogers, PMeadows,  etc. on the MLB roster when they more than likely all need AAA time themselves.

The team is not 'tanking' and with the new draft order in place it makes no sense. Sure the likes of BAnderson, ERios, JProfar, GSancez, MGarver, AMcCutchen, BDuvall, AJPollack, TPham, JSegura, etc. are not 'exciting' per say but any two could still help win games while youngsters gain time at AAA - and a trade or two may be had as well for a younger player (and even a vet if willing to take on salary).

Then towards the midway point of the season much will be reevaluated. Who has developed? who is behind? who could be moved? added? etc.

I agree, I don’t think they’re actively tanking.

As for free agency, it’s possible they’ve got a few guys picked out and they’re just waiting for the pool to thin out a bit.  Maybe they have offers out and all participants are just weighing options.

For whatever reason, I recall the Tigers offering the same contract to Rondell White and Reggie Sanders but willing to sign only one of them.  Yeah, I know, I’m old.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

There is no competitive sense to a 162 game season with expanded playoffs.

I see the baseball season as unique in that they play almost every day and a team needs to be constructed to handle that.  A big part of being a great team is being able to withstand that 162-game grind.  A lot of that goes away if there are too many teams in the playoffs.  it's like running a marathon, taking the the best 12 runners and then having a series of one-mile runs to determine the winner.  It makes no sense.  

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I noticed that my thinking about baseball has shifted over the years. I no longer think of the sport in terms of the regular season being a single competition to be won or lost in the playoffs, but more like a many episode TV season. The corolllary is that the playoffs are just an annual tournament that for all intents and purposes can be totally divorced from the regular season entertainment value, and where I'm indifferent to who or how many get in other than the Tigers and about which my main concern is that the quality of the play not be ruined by games that end up being played in blizzards.

I also view the playoffs as a tournament separate from the regular season.  However,  because teams are not significantly rewarded for regular season performance, pennant races no longer exist which I think is a shame.  There is also not much motivation to be a great team when a pretty good team gets pretty much the same reward.  It will get worse when they eventually expand to 16 teams and you see .500 regularly getting into the big tournament. 

[Edman85]

Mike Moustakas was DFA'ed yesterday. I would not claim him on waivers, but on a minor league or league minimum deal after he's released? Why not?

[RatkoVarda]

11 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Mike Moustakas was DFA'ed yesterday. I would not claim him on waivers, but on a minor league or league minimum deal after he's released? Why not?

not a Clemens fan at all, but giving Koby 150 ABs is better than giving them to MM

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I agree, I don’t think they’re actively tanking.

Neither do I. 

Thought experiment: what if, between now and the end of the offseason, they end up landing a couple of the remaining bigger names. For arguments sake, let's say it's Profar and Jean Segura. If those signings had happened at the end of the Winter Meetings versus in January, would people still be saying they "weren't active" this offseason?

People don't like to hear it, but the free agency period isn't over yet. The offseason isn't over yet. You don't get bonus points for filling your holes in early December versus filling them in late January... the holes either get filled or they do not. 

I dont know what they will or won't do between now and the offseason. But the fact that they haven't signed for any of their stated offensive needs or the fact that the Jon Heyman types haven't thrown their name out (ie. laundered agent talking points) doesn't mean nothing will happen going forward.

Edited December 23, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Speaking of Heyman

[alex]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Neither do I. 

Thought experiment: what if, between now and the end of the offseason, they end up landing a couple of the remaining bigger names. For arguments sake, let's say it's Profar and Jean Segura. If those signings had happened at the end of the Winter Meetings versus in January, would people still be saying they "weren't active" this offseason?

People don't like to hear it, but the free agency period isn't over yet. The offseason isn't over yet. You don't get bonus points for filling your holes in early December versus filling them in late January... the holes either get filled or they do not. 

I dont know what they will or won't do between now and the offseason. But the fact that they haven't signed for any of their stated offensive needs or the fact that the Jon Heyman types haven't thrown their name out (ie. laundered agent talking points) doesn't mean nothing will happen going forward.

Yes. I agree, on each front. For this off season if they sign 2 of the decent remaining FAs and/or make say one more deal, for starting types - that is addressing the the MLB team.

[RatkoVarda]

De Jesus dfa

 

[Tiger337]

He apparently has a good curveball.  Curvin' Castro.  

[RatkoVarda]

26. Kervin Castro, SIRP

Signed: July 2nd Period, 2015 from Venezuela (SFG)

Age	23.0	Height	6′ 0″	Weight	210	Bat / Thr	R / R	FV	40

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Fastball	Curveball	Command	Sits/Tops
60/60	50/55	30/40	93-96 / 98

Castro converted from catching to the mound late in his amateur career and while he hadn’t pitched outside of short-season ball entering the 2020 season, he was the talk of Instructional League and moved to a bullpen roll in order to hasten his advancement to the big leagues. Challenged with an assignment to Triple-A to enter the 2021 season, he excelled in short stints and ended the year with 10 scoreless appearances with the major league club. Nearly as wide as he is tall, Castro leans heavily on a two-pitch mix, with his bread and butter being a mid-90s fastball that can touch 98 mph and plays even better than the velocity thanks to vertical shape and rising action. He has a weird low-80s curve that features solid depth despite low-spin rates, but the pitch is highly inconsistent, flashing both plus and fringy. Unlike many ex-catchers on the mound, Castro has an easy arm action and repeats his delivery well. But while his control is solid, his command can be a bit spotty at times. He’ll likely break camp in the big leagues, and should have a long career as a seventh/eighth inning type.