2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[CMU97]

Keith Law likes the trade...for the Tigers

 

https://theathletic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/theathletic.com/4067235/2023/01/07/law-tigers-trade-gregory-soto-phillies/?amp=1&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16731401858098&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftheathletic.com%2F4067235%2F2023%2F01%2F07%2Flaw-tigers-trade-gregory-soto-phillies%2F

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

Lange next?

for a team still building, if a reliver has value, move him now, before he craters or gets injured.

I'm holding onto Lange as he's getting pushed into the Closer role and can rack up SAVES!!!tm and then we can trade him for a big package.

[Tiger337]

35 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Can we get Benke working on a lineup soon? 🤓

Benke wants BIG trades

[Tigermojo]

Fangraphs projects:

RF Meadows

SS Baez

CF Greene

2B Schoop

DH Carpenter

C Haase

3B Maton

1B Torkelson

LF Baddoo

Sands, Cabrera, Nevin, Vierling

 

Rogers, Kreidler, Malloy at AAA

 

Shouldn't Meadows DH to keep him healthy? I think Miggy might get squeezed out sooner rather than later at this rate.

 

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Fangraphs projects:

RF Meadows

SS Baez

CF Greene

2B Schoop

DH Carpenter

C Haase

3B Maton

1B Torkelson

LF Baddoo

Sands, Cabrera, Nevin, Vierling

 

Rogers, Kreidler, Malloy at AAA

 

Shouldn't Meadows DH to keep him healthy? I think Miggy might get squeezed out sooner rather than later at this rate.

 

Can Miggy still play SS?

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Fangraphs projects:

RF Meadows

SS Baez

CF Greene

2B Schoop

DH Carpenter

C Haase

3B Maton

1B Torkelson

LF Baddoo

Sands, Cabrera, Nevin, Vierling

 

Rogers, Kreidler, Malloy at AAA

 

Shouldn't Meadows DH to keep him healthy? I think Miggy might get squeezed out sooner rather than later at this rate.

 

I can see Miggy having some "back issues" this season..............he clearly hinted that he didn't really want to come back, but he wasn't going to retire with 32 million on the table.   I'd be shocked if he played more than 70 games this year. 

Go get me Donovan Solano.   .350 OBP after  his 2 year absence   Former Giants player, so Scott knows him.  Can probably get him for 6 million

So if they can sign Solano (how sad that my hopes rest on fucking Donovan Solano))

C - Haase/Rogers.   I think this was the plan all along. Sands is insurance.   Rogers will be ready, he could have played at the end of last year. 

1b - Vierling -  Unless Tork absolutely tears it up in spring training, I think he starts in Toledo and has to earn his way back.  Vierling can cover 3b and LF when Tork destroys Triple A pitching out of pure anger.

2b - Schoop.  One of the best defensive 2b in baseball does not need to be moved. 

SS - Baez - We'd be better off with him at 2b, but we have no real options here, yet

3b - Solano - We have no natural 3b, so he'll have to do.  He can cover SS and 2b too.

RF - Austin Meadows - His 162 game average is .259/.334/.475.  That would be nice.  Don't have to baby him with lots of DH time.  He's only 27 - either he can play or he can't.  

CF - Greene - The most solid guy in the lineup already?  Lets not turn him into a superstar, only to be disappointed

LF - Carpenter/Baddoo -  Both left-handed.  Maybe Malloy comes into play if he keeps that OBP high in Toledo

DH - Cabrera, though I can easily see more starts here for a combination of other players.  

Bench guys......Lipcius & Maton.    I think Kriedler would be better off playing every day in Toledo, even thought the way AJ juggles players, few sit on the bench for long stretches.   

 

Rotation on Opening Day

E Rodriguez - Matt Manning - Matthew Boyd - Mike Lorenzen - (Beau Brieske, Joey Wentz or Wilmer Flores) 

I fully expect Manning to end up on the long term DL.   No idea what to expect from Boyd, he throws much harder now?  Mike Lorenzen - a starter?  he hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2015.   How healthy is Brieske.  Was Wentz a fluke.  Flores will be the big Spring Training buzz.  

Bullpen

Alexander - Cisnero - Englert - Foley -  R Garcia - Lange - Turnbull - Vest

Closer by committee (Lange, Foley, Vest).  

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Motor City Sonics

[Tenacious D]

I don’t know what a Solano is.  I still think Harris brings on some of his old guys (LaStella and/or Belt) this is what I see:

C Haase/Rogers

1B Tork/Belt

2B Schoop

SS Baez

3B Maton 

LF Vierling/Carpenter 

CF Greene

RF Meadows

DH Miggy/Meadows

Bench: Rogers, LaStella, Baddoo, Belt, Short

SP: ERod, Turnbull, Boyd, Lorenzen and Manning

Pen: Lange, Vest, Alexander, Cisnero, Foley, Rule 5, TBD FA

At Toledo: Sands, Kreidler, Malloy, Wentz

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

Fangraphs projects:

RF Meadows

SS Baez

CF Greene

2B Schoop

DH Carpenter

C Haase

3B Maton

1B Torkelson

LF Baddoo

Sands, Cabrera, Nevin, Vierling

 

Rogers, Kreidler, Malloy at AAA

 

Shouldn't Meadows DH to keep him healthy? I think Miggy might get squeezed out sooner rather than later at this rate.

 

I think that would be the whitest team the Tigers have had in a long time.  

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

Fangraphs projects:

RF Meadows

SS Baez

CF Greene

2B Schoop

DH Carpenter

C Haase

3B Maton

1B Torkelson

LF Baddoo

Sands, Cabrera, Nevin, Vierling

 

Rogers, Kreidler, Malloy at AAA

 

Shouldn't Meadows DH to keep him healthy? I think Miggy might get squeezed out sooner rather than later at this rate.

 

This seems about right... Vierling will be a nominal bench guy, but one imagines he will be used frequently and all over the outfield. Especially to allow Meadows or Carpenter DH opportunities 

I still would like them to go get Brian Anderson or someone like that as a true 3B and for them to use Maton as a true utility guy (similar to the Harold Castro role), but if he ends up as primary 3B with Nevin or Kreidler behind him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Edited January 8, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tigermojo]

32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think that would be the whitest team the Tigers have had in a long time.  

Right now they have 33 players from the US, 2 Dominican Republic, 2 Venezuela, 1 Puerto Rico and 1 Curacao. Wasn't Avila supposed to have some Latin America connections?

[Tigermojo]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This seems about right... Vierling will be a nominal bench guy, but one imagines he will be used frequently and all over the outfield.

I still would like them to go get Brian Anderson or someone like that as a true 3B and for them to use Maton as a true utility guy (similar to the Harold Castro role), but if he ends up as primary 3B with Nevin or Kreidler behind him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Maton against righties and Kreidler against lefties with good defense would probably be as effective as anyone available.

[mtutiger]

 

AJ Pollock off the market, although the trade probably knocked out the need for an OF at this point.

[Edman85]

The "List Positions, Four Bench Spots, Five Starting Pitchers, and Bullpen Roles" trope is antiquated. I came in here to point out Harris's quotes yesterday that pretty much said that outright and saw about five such posts.

Since Hinch took managing over, how often have the Tigers had the same lineup in back-to-back games. A lot of flux, a lot of match-ups, a lot of mixing and matching. That's only going to increase.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Edman85

[alex]

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

...I still would like them to go get Brian Anderson or someone like that as a true 3B and for them to use Maton as a true utility guy (similar to the Harold Castro role), but if he ends up as primary 3B with Nevin or Kreidler behind him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I do like the deal - but more importantly I hope we can help any combo of these younger player acquisitions take their careers forward - development is key they have some ability and are not total free swingers per say like many younger players have been around here recently.

I agree either BAnderson or ERios still could help (IMHO, we need someone to bat 4 or 5 still).

For LHRP, SHarris mentioned it might be someone more on a minor league deal - so maybe DNorris and/or ZBritton? Chaffin would be nice but...  I would not think he has too much restriction to get/keep the payroll close to last year. It seems it is hovering in that area?

[RandyMarsh]

11 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I can see Miggy having some "back issues" this season..............he clearly hinted that he didn't really want to come back, but he wasn't going to retire with 32 million on the table.   I'd be shocked if he played more than 70 games this year. 

Go get me Donovan Solano.   .350 OBP after  his 2 year absence   Former Giants player, so Scott knows him.  Can probably get him for 6 million

So if they can sign Solano (how sad that my hopes rest on fucking Donovan Solano))

C - Haase/Rogers.   I think this was the plan all along. Sands is insurance.   Rogers will be ready, he could have played at the end of last year. 

1b - Vierling -  Unless Tork absolutely tears it up in spring training, I think he starts in Toledo and has to earn his way back.  Vierling can cover 3b and LF when Tork destroys Triple A pitching out of pure anger.

2b - Schoop.  One of the best defensive 2b in baseball does not need to be moved. 

SS - Baez - We'd be better off with him at 2b, but we have no real options here, yet

3b - Solano - We have no natural 3b, so he'll have to do.  He can cover SS and 2b too.

RF - Austin Meadows - His 162 game average is .259/.334/.475.  That would be nice.  Don't have to baby him with lots of DH time.  He's only 27 - either he can play or he can't.  

CF - Greene - The most solid guy in the lineup already?  Lets not turn him into a superstar, only to be disappointed

LF - Carpenter/Baddoo -  Both left-handed.  Maybe Malloy comes into play if he keeps that OBP high in Toledo

DH - Cabrera, though I can easily see more starts here for a combination of other players.  

Bench guys......Lipcius & Maton.    I think Kriedler would be better off playing every day in Toledo, even thought the way AJ juggles players, few sit on the bench for long stretches.   

 

Rotation on Opening Day

E Rodriguez - Matt Manning - Matthew Boyd - Mike Lorenzen - (Beau Brieske, Joey Wentz or Wilmer Flores) 

I fully expect Manning to end up on the long term DL.   No idea what to expect from Boyd, he throws much harder now?  Mike Lorenzen - a starter?  he hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2015.   How healthy is Brieske.  Was Wentz a fluke.  Flores will be the big Spring Training buzz.  

Bullpen

Alexander - Cisnero - Englert - Foley -  R Garcia - Lange - Turnbull - Vest

Closer by committee (Lange, Foley, Vest).  

 

If that doesn't strike fear in the opposition I don't know what will. 

[mtutiger]

41 minutes ago, alex said:

For LHRP, SHarris mentioned it might be someone more on a minor league deal - so maybe DNorris and/or ZBritton? Chaffin would be nice but...  I would not think he has too much restriction to get/keep the payroll close to last year. It seems it is hovering in that area?

If we are looking at past Giants track records, Alex Young may be a guy to look at as well as a possible LHRP that fits what Harris said yesterday. (Although they may desire someone who isn't another finesse guy with lower FB velocity, similar to Alexander)

Edited January 8, 2023 by mtutiger

[JackPine]

42 minutes ago, alex said:

I do like the deal - but more importantly I hope we can help any combo of these younger player acquisitions take their careers forward - development is key they have some ability and are not total free swingers per say like many younger players have been around here recently.

I agree either BAnderson or ERios still could help (IMHO, we need someone to bat 4 or 5 still).

For LHRP, SHarris mentioned it might be someone more on a minor league deal - so maybe DNorris and/or ZBritton? Chaffin would be nice but...  I would not think he has too much restriction to get/keep the payroll close to last year. It seems it is hovering in that area?

What do you think is chaffin's asking price, 3/27? And what do you think he'll go for, 2/18? 

[mtutiger]

Petzold mentioned Will Smith in his writeup today - another former Giant (though did not overlap with Harris) who could provide some possible trade upside if he pitches well this upcoming season.

Edited January 8, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

13 minutes ago, JackPine said:

What do you think is chaffin's asking price, 3/27? And what do you think he'll go for, 2/18? 

Honestly no clue... his tendency to want to stay in the Midwest close to his farm kinda makes him hard to suss out.

I think he'd love it if Cleveland came calling. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

The "List Positions, Four Bench Spots, Five Starting Pitchers, and Bullpen Roles" trope is antiquated. I came in here to point out Harris's quotes yesterday that pretty much said that outright and saw about five such posts.

Since Hinch took managing over, how often have the Tigers had the same lineup in back-to-back games. A lot of flux, a lot of match-ups, a lot of mixing and matching. That's only going to increase.

I hope bullpen roles are antiquated, because I don't think they are necessary and I never bought the idea that every reliever needed a set role in order to maximize his talent. I don't know that positions are antiquated though. Hinch uses a lot of different line-ups, but I think some of that is due to lack of talent.  It's good to mix and match, but I think ideally, you still want either a primary player or a platoon at each position which is used most days.   

[mtutiger]

I definitely think with the outfield in particular for next year's team, positions and traditional depth chart are out the window. Vierling would be considered a bench player by traditional standards, yet there's a pretty decent likelihood, if everything goes to plan, he's gonna get over 350 ABs for the 2023 Tigers. In part out of platooning in a heavy left-handed outfield, filling in for Meadows or possibly Carpenter who may get DH opportunities, opportunities to play at 3B, etc. So in reality, it's really not a bench role at all in terms of ABs, even though his position is less set in stone.

Infield could potentially be more conventional, particularly if they add a 3B, but if they stick with what they have, not hard to see Maton and/or Kreidler in particular floating around and picking up a lot more ABs over the course of the year than traditional bench guys.

It's pretty interesting... Hinch has always liked guys with a lot of versatility and utilized that approach with the Astros as well. He did so as much or more (out of necessity) with the Tigers with players who aren't well suited to it (Willi, Victor, Harold to a lesser extent bc defense). It seems that this is an area where he aligns with Harris and it's encouraging to see Harris get him players who may take to these roles better, for sure on defense and likely at the plate as well.

Edited January 8, 2023 by mtutiger

[Edman85]

40 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I hope bullpen roles are antiquated, because I don't think they are necessary and I never bought the idea that every reliever needed a set role in order to maximize his talent. I don't know that positions are antiquated though. Hinch uses a lot of different line-ups, but I think some of that is due to lack of talent.  It's good to mix and match, but I think ideally, you still want either a primary player or a platoon at each position which is used most days.   

Right, I just think there's going to be a lot of roster flux this year, less constrained by the 40-man roster, and a lot of platoons (which there have been since at least Hinch), and those platoons will change with the roster flux. Trayce Thompson, for example, would have been called up last year instead of languishing in Toledo then sold for a bucket of balls.

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I hope bullpen roles are antiquated, because I don't think they are necessary and I never bought the idea that every reliever needed a set role in order to maximize his talent. I don't know that positions are antiquated though. Hinch uses a lot of different line-ups, but I think some of that is due to lack of talent.  It's good to mix and match, but I think ideally, you still want either a primary player or a platoon at each position which is used most days.   

I think that skill wise, it's certainly possible to move people around more than teams do, but I think the reason they don't is that skill is not the only factor - familiarity with who you are playing with on a baseball diamond matters. You are more effective when the tendencies, preferences and capabilities of the guys next to are second nature to you.  There is an irreducible overall defensive advantage to good defensive players playing in consistent line-ups.

Edited January 8, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think that skill wise, it's certainly possible to move people around more than teams do, but I think the reason they don't is that skill is not the only factor - familiarity with who you are playing with on a baseball diamond matters. You are more effective when the tendencies, preferences and capabilities of the guys next to are second nature to you.  There is an irreducible overall defensive advantage to good defensive players playing in consistent line-ups.

Defense is is a team effort, so it makes sense to have set positions,  I don't buy the idea that relievers need to have set roles or that batting orders need to stay the same. I think that's more ego than anything else.  

[Tenacious D]

43 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I definitely think with the outfield in particular for next year's team, positions and traditional depth chart are out the window. Vierling would be considered a bench player by traditional standards, yet there's a pretty decent likelihood, if everything goes to plan, he's gonna get over 350 ABs for the 2023 Tigers. In part out of platooning in a heavy left-handed outfield, filling in for Meadows or possibly Carpenter who may get DH opportunities, opportunities to play at 3B, etc. So in reality, it's really not a bench role at all in terms of ABs, even though his position is less set in stone.

Infield could potentially be more conventional, particularly if they add a 3B, but if they stick with what they have, not hard to see Maton and/or Kreidler in particular floating around and picking up a lot more ABs over the course of the year than traditional bench guys.

It's pretty interesting... Hinch has always liked guys with a lot of versatility and utilized that approach with the Astros as well. He did so as much or more (out of necessity) with the Tigers with players who aren't well suited to it (Willi, Victor, Harold to a lesser extent bc defense). It seems that this is an area where he aligns with Harris and it's encouraging to see Harris get him players who may take to these roles better, for sure on defense and likely at the plate as well.

I don’t remember guys like Correa, Altuve, Springer or Bregman moving around much. Likely because they were good where they were.  I do think there is something to plugging holes with a lot of players to find out what is working, and agree that will happen this upcoming season.  Baez, Greene and Tork will likely not move around much, especially if they are performing. The rest of the starting lineup will be in flux.