2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Tiger337]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:41 PM, RandyMarsh said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned or not but Manfred announced that the extra inning runner at 2nd rule that everybody loves so much has now been made official for every game going forward. 

This means I will not watch any extra innings again this year.  I still can't watch that shit.  

[oblong]

Has the rule had the desired effect? 

I'm not a fan of it in the 10th or 11th.  Start that in the 12th if you must do something. At that point put them on third. I can see the need to just get it over with. But not before that.

But putting them on third may have the opposite effect as each team could easily score.

 

 

[oblong]

After 11 innings call it a suspended tie, then whoever wins the next game between the two teams will get 2 wins.  If it's the last game then whoever gets a win and the other team loses, it gets added there.

For example:  Detroit and NYY end their final game in a tie.

Next game Detroit vs CHW, Detroit Wins.  Next game NYY vs. BOS, NYY wins.  Nothing changes.  Next game Detroit wins againsg CHW, NYY loses to BOS, then that final game between DET and NYY goes in favor of DET.

 

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, oblong said:

Has the rule had the desired effect? 

I'm not a fan of it in the 10th or 11th.  Start that in the 12th if you must do something. At that point put them on third. I can see the need to just get it over with. But not before that.

But putting them on third may have the opposite effect as each team could easily score.

I would be OK with starting it in the 11th, which I believe is what they do with international rules. At least player the 10th inning like real baseball.

[Tiger337]

Let it go 11 innings.  if it's still a tie, suspend the game or just call it a tie.  You get two points for a win and one for a tie like they used to do in hockey.  With 11 innings there wouldn't be a lot of ties anyway.  

[casimir]

I was dead set against the runner on 2nd to begin extra innings.  I don't care much about it anymore.  It won't occur in the playoffs, the bases are empty to open an inning.

I'd say play the 10th inning as is.  Put a runner on 1st in the 11th.  Put a runner on 2nd in the 12th.  Put a runner on 3rd in the 13th.

[casimir]

Quote

MLB is also altering the rules regarding when position players are allowed to pitch: A team must be leading by 10 in the ninth inning or trailing by eight (at any point in the game) to summon a position player to pitch. Once the game enters extra innings, position players can pitch at any time.

Is this a good rule?  Can teams just list players as both position players and pitchers for each game?

Who is going to pitch the CastroH innings for the 2023 Tigers?

[oblong]

I generally don't like that rule for the same reason I don't like the shift.  I'm against regulation of players like that. Don't tell them where they are allowed to defend and don't dictate what position eligible players on the roster can play.

 

 

[KL2]

15 minutes ago, oblong said:

I generally don't like that rule for the same reason I don't like the shift.  I'm against regulation of players like that. Don't tell them where they are allowed to defend and don't dictate what position eligible players on the roster can play.

 

 

But every sport does it. Why can't baseball?

[oblong]

2 minutes ago, KL2 said:

But every sport does it. Why can't baseball?

That is a feature of baseball that they don't.  Don't be like other sports.

 

[KL2]

30 minutes ago, oblong said:

That is a feature of baseball that they don't.  Don't be like other sports.

 

So don't do it cause of weird traditions. That's silly. There is nothing wrong with regulations to improve your sport. Whether that is moving the 3 point line back, limiting hand checking, eliminating targeting or reducing the shifts. Players grow, the game evolves, it's OK to make changes so it doens't become boring. Right now, baseball is boring. 

[Jim Cowan]

40 minutes ago, oblong said:

That is a feature of baseball that they don't.  Don't be like other sports.

 

Yes I agree, and other sports already don't do it as much. On game day in the NFL you dress 45 football players, no one tells you where they can stand, except 7 on the O line, or when they can play.  Baseball is trying a bunch of silly ideas when all they have to do is restore the ball to its liveliness circa 1985 (not 1987).

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yes I agree, and other sports already don't do it as much. On game day in the NFL you dress 45 football players, no one tells you where they can stand, except 7 on the O line, or when they can play.  

They have screwed around with kickoffs and extra points a lot over the past 10-15 years. Moving yard lines for both, but also restrictions on how far back the kickoff team can line up as well.

Edited February 15, 2023 by mtutiger

[Jim Cowan]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

They have screwed around with kickoffs and extra points a lot over the past 10-15 years. Moving yard lines for both, but also restrictions on how far back the kickoff team can line up as well.

Yes they did, kickoff changes were more about injury prevention though, and there are other changes too like how to tackle, blocking technique etc.  To me that's not as extreme as banning the shift for example, but everyone's opinion will differ.

[oblong]

43 minutes ago, KL2 said:

So don't do it cause of weird traditions. That's silly. There is nothing wrong with regulations to improve your sport. Whether that is moving the 3 point line back, limiting hand checking, eliminating targeting or reducing the shifts. Players grow, the game evolves, it's OK to make changes so it doens't become boring. Right now, baseball is boring. 

It's not an improvement.

And hand checking and targeting are completely different.  That relates to obstruction and impeding play of others in a contact sport, like letting a catcher use his glove to block a swing, or a hitter stand in the way of a C making a throw.  A more correct analogy would be not allowing a defender to go beyond the 3 point line because they are too good at defending or not allowing more than 2 guys cover a specific receiver downfield. That's what baseball is doing.

You are correct in one thing, players grow and the game evolves.  These rules in baseball are an attempt to block that growth and evolution because they are combating that increase that comes from knowledge.  

There's nothing "weird" about allowing people to play smarter. It's ignorant to prevent it.

 

 

 

[oblong]

4 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yes they did, kickoff changes were more about injury prevention though, and there are other changes too like how to tackle, blocking technique etc.  To me that's not as extreme as banning the shift for example, but everyone's opinion will differ.

and doing things in baseball like takeout slides and catchers not blocking the plate are fair game because it's about injuries and not an attempt to alter run scoring or player activity.  The purpose behind it is completely different.

Imagine in hockey if they said "Only 1 defender can be within 7 feet of the goalie.  The left winger can't cross this imaginary line without the puck"

 

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I was dead set against the runner on 2nd to begin extra innings.  I don't care much about it anymore.  It won't occur in the playoffs, the bases are empty to open an inning.

I'd say play the 10th inning as is.  Put a runner on 1st in the 11th.  Put a runner on 2nd in the 12th.  Put a runner on 3rd in the 13th.

I think they don’t put them on first because that would just set up a double play.

[oblong]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think they don’t put them on first because that would just set up a double play.

yeah, they wait for the first out before the IBB. 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, KL2 said:

But every sport does it. Why can't baseball?

Specific to pitching, what rules in other sports prevent players designated as one position from playing another position?  There are hybrid players in all sports. 

Centers are either becoming extinct in basketball or evolving into something different.  Basketball in general is morphing into postionless arrangements.

Offensive lineman in football are restricted to wearing certain numbers and have certain rules dictating when/where they can be, but I don't think there's a rule saying they couldn't flip over to defensive line.

I don't know enough about hockey, but I know on penalty kills, wings & defence (shout out Canada) might not necessarily be two of each at a time on the ice.  And then there is the pulling of the goalie for an extra attacker.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think they don’t put them on first because that would just set up a double play.

Quick way to get two outs and keep the game moving.

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

Quick way to get two outs and keep the game moving.

But that also works against the scoring of runs and deciding a winner more quickly. 

[casimir]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

But that also works against the scoring of runs and deciding a winner more quickly. 

Maybe.  Maybe not.  It could be the bottom of the inning, batting team trailing.  A double play gets things to 2 outs or over.

[gehringer_2]

43 minutes ago, casimir said:

I don't know enough about hockey, but I know on penalty kills, wings & defence (shout out Canada) might not necessarily be two of each at a time on the ice.  And then there is the pulling of the goalie for an extra attacker.

Hockey does recognize goalies as a unique position- for instance goalies don't serve their penalties and other special rules apply to them.  But the distinction between forwards and defenseman is purely internal to a team, the rules don't recognize any difference between the 5 skaters.

and even in football, all an O-lineman has to do check in with the official and he can participate in a play anyway anyone else can. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

Unlike you Luddites, I like the new extra innings with the runner on second base.  Adds a new strategic dynamic and does shorten games.

 

 

[KL2]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

Specific to pitching, what rules in other sports prevent players designated as one position from playing another position?  

Tackle eligible?