2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Edman85]

A year ago, if I would have told you a bullpen that included Jason Foley, Will Vest, Joe Jimenez (coming off the awful years he was coming off of), and Alex Lange would be the Tigers' best bullpen since 2006, would you have believed me? I can't emphasize enough how important it is to just assume all bullpens will be average and your w/l projections for any team will be better.

[Edman85]

Also, if you haven't heard of Chasen Shreve, that's on you. He's been in the bigs for a decade now.

[SoCalTiger]

The bullpen will surprise even after Lange is traded. 

[mtutiger]

On 3/28/2023 at 1:12 PM, mtutiger said:

The beat writers obsession over "old friends" in general is puzzling. I have never understood it.

lol

[Edman85]

It sure seems like they are waiting on Brieske's evaluation before seeing if they need to drop anybody or 60-day him.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

lol

I’m not so surprised. I thought Willi might be the one guy from the Avila corps Scott would keep. He’s only 25, and has enough underlying skills that might work at the big league level if someone can figure out how to unlock it. Of course, he could completely flop, too. But I won’t be terribly surprised if he’s still playing big league ball in 2028.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I’m not so surprised. I thought Willi might be the one guy from the Avila corps Scott would keep. He’s only 25, and has enough underlying skills that might work at the big league level if someone can figure out how to unlock it. Of course, he could completely flop, too. But I won’t be terribly surprised if he’s still playing big league ball in 2028.

Mostly skeptical because of his defense... His throwing arm was decent as an OF last year, but he largely doesn't cut it. Maybe the Twins will figure it out or expose him less

Edited March 30, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

Castro can't draw a walk.  You can't play on Harris' team if you can't draw a walk unless your Javy Baez and he's stuck with you.  Also, he is terrible infielder and doesn't hit well enough to be an outfielder.  Most years he doesn't hit enough to be anything.  

[Edman85]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

Castro can't draw a walk.  You can't play on Harris' team if you can't draw a walk unless your Javy Baez and he's stuck with you.  Also, he is terrible infielder and doesn't hit well enough to be an outfielder.  Most years he doesn't hit enough to be anything.  

The beauty of this is that this applies to either Castro. Hell it may even apply to Fidel for all I know...

[Motor City Sonics]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

ah - right! For as long as he is there! (hope. hope)

[Tigermojo]

I think Fidel was a closer. When he showed up, the game was over. 

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The beauty of this is that this applies to either Castro. Hell it may even apply to Fidel for all I know...

You know what?  As someone who once really enjoyed a Cuban sandwich, you can't even joke about that pig Fidel Castro.   Shame on you. 

[Jim Cowan]

34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Castro can't draw a walk.  You can't play on Harris' team if you can't draw a walk unless your Javy Baez and he's stuck with you.  Also, he is terrible infielder and doesn't hit well enough to be an outfielder.  Most years he doesn't hit enough to be anything.  

He signed with the Twins, and now he gets to live the rest of his life like a schnook.

[chasfh]

26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Castro can't draw a walk.  You can't play on Harris' team if you can't draw a walk unless your Javy Baez and he's stuck with you.  Also, he is terrible infielder and doesn't hit well enough to be an outfielder.  Most years he doesn't hit enough to be anything.  

If you believe Baseball Reference, Willi had 1.2 WAR in 392 plate trips last year, which is basically the level of major league regular over a full season. Sure, he’s probably never gonna walk, and he’s almost certainly never going to be a perennial All-Star. But if he can stay versatile and average even 1.0 WAR a year, he can find work into his 30s.

[RandyMarsh]

I was always more stubborn on Castro than most were, partially because he started in the Cleveland system and not ours, was relatively praised by national guys that I respect when we got him for Martin and because he did actually perform well his first full year in Toledo and in turn the 50 game COVID year. 

He struggled in 2021 and 22 but so did alot of our guys but he atleast showed at some point not too far in the past that he could hit unlike a good majority of our roster or would be roster. 

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If you believe Baseball Reference, Willi had 1.2 WAR in 392 plate trips last year, which is basically the level of major league regular over a full season. Sure, he’s probably never gonna walk, and he’s almost certainly never going to be a perennial All-Star. But if he can stay versatile and average even 1.0 WAR a year, he can find work into his 30s.

Career WAR 0.4.  

but sure, he's young enough to develop a little more.  I'm just glad the Tigers are not going to wait any longer.  

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Tiger337

[Jim Cowan]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I was always more stubborn on Castro than most were, partially because he started in the Cleveland system and not ours, was relatively praised by national guys that I respect when we got him for Martin and because he did actually perform well his first full year in Toledo and in turn the 50 game COVID year. 

He struggled in 2021 and 22 but so did alot of our guys but he atleast showed at some point not too far in the past that he could hit unlike a good majority of our roster or would be roster. 

Those are good points and if he keeps getting contracts it won't have anything to do with his current performance, it will be because teams with hubris will look at that 2020 season and say "we can unlock that".  Here's  an interesting long term bet...after the Twins, how many more organizations will sign him?  I say 3.

[Tiger337]

He can repeat his 2020 season if he puts up a .448 BABIP again.  

[Jim Cowan]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He can repeat his 2020 season if he puts up a .448 BABIP again.  

Exactly.

[Tigermojo]

Uceta designated for assignment and that's the end of the offseason.

[1984Echoes]

13 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Career WAR 0.4. 

Replacement level player. And frustrating one at that...

 

13 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

... but sure, he's young enough to develop a little more.  I'm just glad the Tigers are not going to wait any longer.  

 

Hope Springs Eternal!!!

[chasfh]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:34 PM, Tiger337 said:

Career WAR 0.4.  

but sure, he's young enough to develop a little more.  I'm just glad the Tigers are not going to wait any longer.  

 

I wouldn’t say I was a fan and wanted him to come back. I wasn’t. I was saying of all that group of hackers, he was the one I thought might have a chance to come back, and also, I’m not too surprised he landed on an active roster and went north with another team. The main reason I say this is his young age. If he had the exact same numbers but was going on his age 28 season instead of 25, I’d be surprised he’s not playing out the string in Mexico or Korea or Taiwan.

[Tiger337]

Harold Castro made a major league roster too.  

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Harold Castro made a major league roster too.  

Yet another reason it sucks to be a Rockies fan.

[chasfh]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:54 PM, chasfh said:

I would like to try to predict which of the current guys on the 40-man roster, plus those on the 60-day IL, will be returning to the team, and which will be leaving the team.

Pitchers

Returning:

Alex Lange

Andrew Chafin

Angel De Jesus

Casey Mize

Ed. Rodriguez

Jason Foley

Joe Jiménez

Joey Wentz

Matt Manning

Rony García

Spencer Turnbull

Tarik Skubal

Will Vest

Minor League Contracts:

Beau Brieske

Luis Castillo

Kyle Funkhouser

Leaving:

Alex Faedo

Bryan Garcia

Daniel Norris

Drew Hutchison

Elvin Rodriguez

Garrett Hill

Gregory Soto

José Cisnero

Miguel Diaz

Tyler Alexander

Pitchers Comments: Chafin has a player option but he's close to home so I think he stays; De Jesus I think could go either way; Vest is gonna be 28 so he might be on the bubble; Brieske might have enough to be an organizational soldier with the occasional September callup; Soto might surprise and stay, although he might have punched his ticket out of town last night and today.

Position Players

Returning:

Ali Sánchez

Javier Báez

Brendon Davis

Luis García

Eric Haase

Ryan Kreidler

Jake Rogers

Jonathan Schoop

Sp. Torkelson

Akil Baddoo

Riley Greene

Austin Meadows

Miguel Cabrera

Kerry Carpenter

Willi Castro

Minor League Contracts:

Josh Lester

Zack Short

Leaving:

Tucker Barnhart

Jeimer Candelario

Harold Castro

Kody Clemens

Daz Cameron

Victor Reyes

Position Player comments: Sanchez sticks around pending Rogers' return, and he's developed on-base skills; Davis was a three-level hitting star in 2021 so it's worth seeing whether he can recapture that; if Schoop can replicate even the worst of his hitting years from 2019 to 2021, this is a no-brainer; say what you want about Willi, he's a WAR positive utility guy who can still be valuable to us for a couple mil; Lester and Short can both be soldiers like Beau; Harold has too many deficiencies to carry anymore; Victor is inexorably eroding and he's out of time.

Jeimer is the hardest one for me. All the buzz around him, including during game broadcasts, suggests he's going, and that's hard to ignore. But he was also a four-win player just last year, and two wins in about a third of the time in 2020. Do we really believe one year later that that is basically of another era, that there's no way he can recapture it at all? Did it really take only one year? I'm not so sure about that, and unless there is some underlying damning data we're not privy to that suggests he truly is done done, I think there's a halfway decent chance the Tigers bring him back if it's not much more than $7MM.

I meant to post this past Thursday but I got busy early on and then it got by me, but here close I came with my predictions back from the first day of the offseason.

Pitchers

Returning:

Alex Lange - correct

Andrew Chafin – wrong, with ARI

Angel De Jesus – correct, although NRI

Casey Mize - correct

Ed. Rodriguez - correct

Jason Foley - correct

Joe Jiménez – wrong, traded to ATL

Joey Wentz - correct

Matt Manning - correct

Rony García - correct

Spencer Turnbull - correct

Tarik Skubal - correct

Will Vest - correct

 

Minor League Contracts:

Beau Brieske  - push, here but on 40-man

Luis Castillo– wrong, in Japan

Kyle Funkhouser – wrong, non-tendered and with TEX

 

Leaving:

Alex Faedo – wrong, on 40-man in Toledo

Bryan Garcia - correct

Daniel Norris - correct

Drew Hutchison - correct

Elvin Rodriguez - correct

Garrett Hill – wrong, on active roster

Gregory Soto - correct

José Cisnero – wrong, on active roster

Miguel Diaz – wrong, NRI

Tyler Alexander – wrong, on active roster

 

Position Players

Returning:

Ali Sánchez– wrong, with ARI

Javier Báez - correct

Brendon Davis - correct

Luis García - correct

Eric Haase - correct

Ryan Kreidler - correct

Jake Rogers - correct

Jonathan Schoop - correct

Sp. Torkelson - correct

Akil Baddoo - correct

Riley Greene - correct

Austin Meadows - correct

Miguel Cabrera - correct

Kerry Carpenter - correct

Willi Castro – wrong, with MIN

 

Minor League Contracts:

Josh Lester – wrong, with BAL

Zack Short – wrong, on 40-man in Toledo

 

Leaving:

Tucker Barnhart - correct

Jeimer Candelario - correct

Harold Castro - correct

Kody Clemens - correct

Daz Cameron - correct

Victor Reyes - correct

 

So, kind of a mixed bag, especially with pitchers.

I thought Chafin would stick around close to home since he made such a deal about that, but he wanted out bad enough to go to Arizona.

Joe Jiminez would have had a place on this roster if we didn’t flip him for Molloy and the other guy.

I thought the new regime would see Cisnero as having a last hurrah last year, but I guess they didn’t want him to just walk and apparently hoped he could do well enough in Lakeland and during the season so we can flip him at some point.

I was also surprised to see us hang onto Brieske and Hill, who predictably both stunk it up this spring. Breiske especially seems to be impervious to merit-based consequences, I guess because he has stuff that could best be described as “tantalizing” which, let's be clear, is not a compliment.

I think Alexander probably would be gone if we were a better team, but every team needs southpaws, and sometimes you just take what you can get.

Willi Castro wasn’t such a big whiff, I don’t think. I thought he was the one guy of all the Avila crew who had peripherals enough to stick around for one more try. Instead, he broke camp with Minnesota after a pretty good spring. Apparently, what he needed was a team that at least thinks they know what to do with him. I thought maybe that could have been us with Harris et al running things, but maybe they just didn’t see it in him, or perhaps the pressure to dump him was just too great, as with Candelario, who had a sub-optimal spring and is off to a bad start.